The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:59 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
I'm assuming rbf will rely on belief that Folk will will turn it around.


That holds as much water as assuming Aguayo wouldn't be able to turn it around.

Except Folk has an actual track record in the NFL. He's a career 81% kicker who's been at 85% over the last 4 seasons. If Folk were to have a rough week 1, history suggests he turns it around week 2 and the rest of the way. Why wouldn't he? If Aguayo struggles week 1, we could have ourselves a one way ticket to doodooville.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Swashy » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Personally I don't care who wins the battle for kicker. It could be Aguayo, Folk, a member here of the UUTBBBB or Barney the dinosaur. I just want someone who isn't gonna completely botch when it's 21-20 with 10 seconds left and we've got the game winning kick 42 yards away. What burns my ass about all this is that we had a perfectly capable kicker in Connor Barth and we had to go and act like we were so much damn smarter than everyone else by trying to improve a position that did not require improvement due to Barth's return.

I wish Aguayo all the best but don't expect me to remain patient if he screws up that 42 yard kick and then follows it up missing 2 chip shots that would've won us another contest. We can't deal with this kid's growing pains at the expense of winning and expect to be a playoff team. I'm giving him til about the halfway point of next year to turn this thing around. We already have a hard enough time not shooting ourselves in the foot and I'm not gonna wait around long while this kid adds 2 more bullets in the gun every time we feel like playing Russian Roulette.

With all that said I hope he makes it and I hope that he can provide the kind of difference we drafted him for because unfortunately for both him and the Bucs it's the only choice there is.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:19 pm

Swashy wrote:Personally I don't care who wins the battle for kicker. It could be Aguayo, Folk, a member here of the UUTBBBB or Barney the dinosaur. I just want someone who isn't gonna completely botch when it's 21-20 with 10 seconds left and we've got the game winning kick 42 yards away. What burns my ass about all this is that we had a perfectly capable kicker in Connor Barth and we had to go and act like we were so much damn smarter than everyone else by trying to improve a position that did not require improvement due to Barth's return.

I wish Aguayo all the best but don't expect me to remain patient if he screws up that 42 yard kick and then follows it up missing 2 chip shots that would've won us another contest. We can't deal with this kid's growing pains at the expense of winning and expect to be a playoff team. I'm giving him til about the halfway point of next year to turn this thing around. We already have a hard enough time not shooting ourselves in the foot and I'm not gonna wait around long while this kid adds 2 more bullets in the gun every time we feel like playing Russian Roulette.

With all that said I hope he makes it and I hope that he can provide the kind of difference we drafted him for because unfortunately for both him and the Bucs it's the only choice there is.

I'm right with you. Folk I think is the better bet, but all I care about is the guy we end up keeping getting the job DONE.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Babeinbucland » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:40 pm

deltbucs wrote:
Nano wrote:That's because some people feel the need to constantly remind us that it was a bad pick, and they were right for hating it instantly.

Exactly...Most of this board thought it was a bad pick. I hated it, but that doesn't mean I need to keep telling everyone that I hated it so that I feel good about myself.

Well, except like once again here
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:14 am

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Noles1724 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:19 am

mdb1958 wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pk-brandon-mcmanus-is-true-weapon-for-broncos-drills-73-yard-field-goal-in-practice


OP can you change the thread title?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:31 am

Noles, you have serious stalking probs.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby GottaJaboo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:01 am

Aguayo is the clear leader at this point. Folk is just not up for the challenge and Aguayo is near perfect. It's weird...
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Super K » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:08 am

GottaJaboo wrote:Aguayo is the clear leader at this point. Folk is just not up for the challenge and Aguayo is near perfect. It's weird...



Weird indeed..

But good..this is the best possible scenerio for us..
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby RedLeader » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Competition can do wonders.


Kudos to Licht.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Doctor » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:45 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Doctor wrote:Bingo. The ONLY player I remember really being mentioned is the Saints safety Bell. Now, if he turns into a stud, sure, all those people who picked him and cried about Aguayo will be validated. But in reality, everyone is upset with this pick (or any other busts) is completely playing hindsight unless that called it out on draft day.


I don't think I can remember a Bucs pick more called out on draft day than this one based on position value so your argument doesn't work. MJW wrote at least 7 dissertations on the subject.

You misunderstand. Unless you call out the player that SHOULD HAVE been the pick on draft day. If not then you are just doing the worthless "We could have gotten [insert player who we now know is a success here] instead!!" routine that we do with every pick that is a bust or we don't like. THAT is the hindsight. It's a pretty safe bet to say there is going to be some players selected after Aguayo (or any second rounder) that are going to be better. Of course. But unless you were calling out that player on draft day then you are just playing Monday Morning QB. The only player I heard called for was Bell.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Buc2 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Doctor wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
I don't think I can remember a Bucs pick more called out on draft day than this one based on position value so your argument doesn't work. MJW wrote at least 7 dissertations on the subject.

You misunderstand. Unless you call out the player that SHOULD HAVE been the pick on draft day. If not then you are just doing the worthless "We could have gotten [insert player who we now know is a success here] instead!!" routine that we do with every pick that is a bust or we don't like. THAT is the hindsight. It's a pretty safe bet to say there is going to be some players selected after Aguayo (or any second rounder) that are going to be better. Of course. But unless you were calling out that player on draft day then you are just playing Monday Morning QB. The only player I heard called for was Bell.

I didn't hear anyone call for anybody because no one knew we'd have that pick until the trade went down.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NJDungeoneer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:35 pm

When I heard that we moved up in the second, I came on here and said "it's gotta be for Bell".

What a disappointment at the time......a Kicker?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Doctor » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:44 am

Buc2 wrote:
Doctor wrote:You misunderstand. Unless you call out the player that SHOULD HAVE been the pick on draft day. If not then you are just doing the worthless "We could have gotten [insert player who we now know is a success here] instead!!" routine that we do with every pick that is a bust or we don't like. THAT is the hindsight. It's a pretty safe bet to say there is going to be some players selected after Aguayo (or any second rounder) that are going to be better. Of course. But unless you were calling out that player on draft day then you are just playing Monday Morning QB. The only player I heard called for was Bell.

I didn't hear anyone call for anybody because no one knew we'd have that pick until the trade went down.

Even after it was picked. Plenty of members here were upset, but like I said, very few names were ever thrown out as to who the pick should have been. So even if he goes on to be a great kicker these clowns will still give themselves a free pass card to say "I didn't like the pick, it should have been.... [quick wiki search for pro-bowler picked after him]... this guy instead". Completely ignoring all the busts the pick could have easily been as well. Everyone is a draft guru in hindsight.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:49 am

Doctor wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I didn't hear anyone call for anybody because no one knew we'd have that pick until the trade went down.

Even after it was picked. Plenty of members here were upset, but like I said, very few names were ever thrown out as to who the pick should have been. So even if he goes on to be a great kicker these clowns will still give themselves a free pass card to say "I didn't like the pick, it should have been.... [quick wiki search for pro-bowler picked after him]... this guy instead". Completely ignoring all the busts the pick could have easily been as well. Everyone is a draft guru in hindsight.


You still don't understand that even if he goes on to be a great kicker it was a dumb pick. You don't roll 2nd round dice on a kicker. Fans didn't need to have a specific player targeted instead to understand how inane a move drafting Roberto was.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Doctor » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:52 am

real bucs fan wrote:Unless Folk completely shits the bed, I still don't see how one can trust Aguayo over Folk given their respective NFL track records. Outside of 2009 where he was injured, Folk has been one of the better kickers in the league for a decade. Aguayo has only one season under his belt, and he was terrible.

It's the NFL. The only "track record" that matters is what you've done lately. If you can't out kick the other guy during two months of TC and Preseason then your "track record" isn't going to save you. I don't care what he's done over the last 8 years I care about what he's done over the last 8 weeks, in other words, who he is today.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:54 am

Doctor wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Unless Folk completely shits the bed, I still don't see how one can trust Aguayo over Folk given their respective NFL track records. Outside of 2009 where he was injured, Folk has been one of the better kickers in the league for a decade. Aguayo has only one season under his belt, and he was terrible.

It's the NFL. The only "track record" that matters is what you've done lately. If you can't out kick the other guy during two months of TC and Preseason then your "track record" isn't going to save you. I don't care what he's done over the last 8 years I care about what he's done over the last 8 weeks, in other words, who he is today.


Agreed 100%. We would all be livid if Roberto went 90% in preaseon but was cut for a 75% accurate Folk. Can you imagine the reaction if Koetter said "but Folk's history tho...."? Lol
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:59 am

Doctor wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Unless Folk completely shits the bed, I still don't see how one can trust Aguayo over Folk given their respective NFL track records. Outside of 2009 where he was injured, Folk has been one of the better kickers in the league for a decade. Aguayo has only one season under his belt, and he was terrible.

It's the NFL. The only "track record" that matters is what you've done lately. If you can't out kick the other guy during two months of TC and Preseason then your "track record" isn't going to save you. I don't care what he's done over the last 8 years I care about what he's done over the last 8 weeks, in other words, who he is today.

I would put more stock in an 8 year track record than 1 TC/preseason myself.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:15 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Doctor wrote:It's the NFL. The only "track record" that matters is what you've done lately. If you can't out kick the other guy during two months of TC and Preseason then your "track record" isn't going to save you. I don't care what he's done over the last 8 years I care about what he's done over the last 8 weeks, in other words, who he is today.

I would put more stock in an 8 year track record than 1 TC/preseason myself.


With kickers specifically what happened within the last eight years doesn't matter.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:03 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I would put more stock in an 8 year track record than 1 TC/preseason myself.


With kickers specifically what happened within the last eight years doesn't matter.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:10 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
With kickers specifically what happened within the last eight years doesn't matter.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.

Dude, are you, like, Folks agent or something?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:14 pm

Buc2 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.

Dude, are you, like, Folks agent or something?

No... I just want the best guy out there to give the Bucs the best chance to win. And from what I've seen of Folk over the last 8 years compared to what I've seen out of Roberto in his 1 season... that guy is Nick Folk. I fail to see how anyone can view it differently. If Berto wins the job, I'll support him 100%, but don't tell me you won't be nervous if he has to go out there to kick a 45 yarder to win the game week 1.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Caradoc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:19 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Dude, are you, like, Folks agent or something?

If Berto wins the job, I'll support him 100%


Even you don't believe that.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:44 pm

Caradoc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:If Berto wins the job, I'll support him 100%


Even you don't believe that.

When have I ever not supported a Buc? Why would I want our kicker to fail? Nice try doe
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Hit55 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:08 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Dude, are you, like, Folks agent or something?

No... I just want the best guy out there to give the Bucs the best chance to win. And from what I've seen of Folk over the last 8 years compared to what I've seen out of Roberto in his 1 season... that guy is Nick Folk. I fail to see how anyone can view it differently. If Berto wins the job, I'll support him 100%, but don't tell me you won't be nervous if he has to go out there to kick a 45 yarder to win the game week 1.

If we are trotting a kicker out to win us the game against Miami (at this point), we did something wrong.

That said, it's been mentioned before but it's worth mentioning again. You cannot compare "track records" of someone with one season under their belt. Besides, within 40-49 yards, Folk is only a 71% kicker as well, including 50% last year. That's also pretty pedestrian.

Folk has been awful in camp where there is no pressure aside from beating out the guy he came in to compete against. And he's doing a piss poor job at it so far. Yesterday's practice was brutal for both (they both went 2/7). But it's looking like this has been consistent for Folk so far this camp.

It has also been said already, but this looks like it will ultimately be a Week 4 of preseason decision after both Kickers can show what they've got in-game. And at that point, I hope we all just start rooting for success outta whoever makes the team instead of the constant back and forth on a kicker. For right now though, just based on practice alone, Aguayo has it.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NYBF » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:12 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
With kickers specifically what happened within the last eight years doesn't matter.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NYBF » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:17 pm

real bucs fan wrote:if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


Is a 20 point drop from year 8 to year 9 "falling off a cliff"?

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How about 12?

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:38 pm

RBF is taking the Gruden route of discounting rookies and young players because of a "lack of track record".
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:21 pm

NYBF wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


Is a 20 point drop from year 8 to year 9 "falling off a cliff"?

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How about 12?

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I'm assuming rbf will double down and say a 20% decline is still better than going with Berto.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Selmon Rules » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:31 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Doctor wrote:It's the NFL. The only "track record" that matters is what you've done lately. If you can't out kick the other guy during two months of TC and Preseason then your "track record" isn't going to save you. I don't care what he's done over the last 8 years I care about what he's done over the last 8 weeks, in other words, who he is today.

I would put more stock in an 8 year track record than 1 TC/preseason myself.

So you think they should just cut Aguayo now??? I mean if you put more stock in what Folk has done over the past 8 years, why even bother?? Maybe they should go see if Vanderjact (sorry for the misspelled name, I ain't looking it up) is still available, he has long track record of being a very good kicker....
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