Romo: Retired

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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:02 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
NYBF wrote:
Does he get better after the first time you vote for him?


No, but there is precedence/distinction for 1st ballot HoF players. Guys like Cris Carter come to mind as great players and obvious HoF resume, but didn't get in 1st ballot.

A first ballot HoF player is guy that was an all-timer, perennial all-pro over his career, can't tell the history of the game without mentioning his name. Even some of them don't get in 1st ballot.

I missed all of Cris Carter's Super Bowl appearances. And here I thought I was a football fan.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:26 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
No, but there is precedence/distinction for 1st ballot HoF players. Guys like Cris Carter come to mind as great players and obvious HoF resume, but didn't get in 1st ballot.

A first ballot HoF player is guy that was an all-timer, perennial all-pro over his career, can't tell the history of the game without mentioning his name. Even some of them don't get in 1st ballot.

I missed all of Cris Carter's Super Bowl appearances. And here I thought I was a football fan.


When Cris Carter retired he was 2nd all time in catches and TDs to Jerry Rice.

Playoff success is a factor in HoF voting, for QBs it's weighed more heavily than any other position.

My disagreement with you on Romo isn't personal. You know I love you :D . I just think the HoF case for Romo is tough.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:34 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
No, but there is precedence/distinction for 1st ballot HoF players. Guys like Cris Carter come to mind as great players and obvious HoF resume, but didn't get in 1st ballot.

A first ballot HoF player is guy that was an all-timer, perennial all-pro over his career, can't tell the history of the game without mentioning his name. Even some of them don't get in 1st ballot.

I missed all of Cris Carter's Super Bowl appearances. And here I thought I was a football fan.


You're having a meltdown now lol. Was Romo top 3 all time in ANY statistical metric at the time he retired?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:39 pm

While I do want a placeholder represented in the HoF. Romo ain't it.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby bahamian:bucfan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:55 pm

I am VERY surprised that you guys are mentioning hall of fame and Tony Romo in the same sentence. Romo IS NOT a hall of famer!

But hey, if guys like Andre Reed, and Joe Namath can make it to the hall: Anything is possible!
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Deja Entendu » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:00 pm

Doctor wrote:If Romo should get in there's a long list of other players before him, like McNabb.

With that said who had the better career Romo or McNabb? Who would you rather have had in your franchise?


Romo, and I don't need time to blink to make that call.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Kress » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:25 pm

bahamian:bucfan wrote:I am VERY surprised that you guys are mentioning hall of fame and Tony Romo in the same sentence. Romo IS NOT a hall of famer!!
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:14 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
MJW wrote:I'll pose this question as plainly as I can for Ken (and anyone else:)

Did you feel like you were watching an all-time great when you watched Romo?

I did not. Is it more complicated than that? Sure. Otherwise Bo Jackson would be in the Hall and Art Monk would be out. But that doesn't mean that shouldn't be what we're talking about here.

Hey, I know what makes for great Hall of Fame discussions. Totally subjective nonsense.


There are only two criteria that CAN be discussed dude - raw numbers and "subjective nonsense." They're both flawed, but they need to work together in the process. That's it.

For me, Romo gets a solid "B" in career numbers but fails the "subjective nonsense." That's not a HOFer to me.

You can get in when you obliterate one side of the equation alone. Ask Terrell Davis. But you're overstating the crap out of Romo's production. He's not in the top 20 all time in any cumulative passing stat. At that point, you go to the "subjective nonsense" discussion, and I personally get stuck on the whole, "made almost no impact on the history of game during his career" thing.

And did you say he's UNDERRATED? As a Dallas Cowboy? C'mon now.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:24 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:I missed all of Cris Carter's Super Bowl appearances. And here I thought I was a football fan.


You're having a meltdown now lol. Was Romo top 3 all time in ANY statistical metric at the time he retired?

3rd all-time in QB rating.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:38 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You're having a meltdown now lol. Was Romo top 3 all time in ANY statistical metric at the time he retired?

3rd all-time in QB rating.


Actually Brady is 3rd. You must mean either 4th or 2nd.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Nano » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:08 pm

Romo is 4th with a 97.1 rating. Tom Brady is 3rd with a 97.2
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:15 pm

Nano wrote:Romo is 4th with a 97.1 rating. Tom Brady is 3rd with a 97.2

Ok, I was wrong. His measured QB play is fractionally worse than Tom Brady.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Teitan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:18 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Nano wrote:Romo is 4th with a 97.1 rating. Tom Brady is 3rd with a 97.2

Ok, I was wrong. His measured QB play is fractionally worse than Tom Brady.



You realize that HOF isn't a stat driven accolade, right? The fact that he's barely been to the post season and never won anything of importance is HUGE.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Caradoc » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:25 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Romo isn't a HoF QB imo.

Only 7 seasons starting more than 10 games, 4 winning seasons in those 7. In those 4 winning seasons he went a combined 2-4 in the playoffs.



That should be the end of this discussion.

And the "but his team sucked, not him" is the most pathetic excuse in the world.

I'm starting to think that Ken has a life-size Tony Romo doll.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:45 pm

It's funny, because all of his "great moments" that ESPN is packaging for the retirement story consist of, "Romo comes into his first game!" and "Eli Manning throws an interception, Cowboys win!" and "Epic comeback against mediocre Lions team!"

THAT should be the end of it. You start at QB for a decade, and everyone is looking at their feet when the topic of your "greatest moments" comes up, you don't get into the Hall Of Fame.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:44 am

Caradoc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Romo isn't a HoF QB imo.

Only 7 seasons starting more than 10 games, 4 winning seasons in those 7. In those 4 winning seasons he went a combined 2-4 in the playoffs.



That should be the end of this discussion.

And the "but his team sucked, not him" is the most pathetic excuse in the world.

I'm starting to think that Ken has a life-size Tony Romo doll.

I feel like Brad Pitt in the movie Moneyball. I'm in a room full of old school scouts whose analysis is 'the ball jumps off his bat' and 'if he had confidence he'd have a better looking girlfriend.'

With all the ways to measure games, performances and careers, it's like going into a barber shop (sit down, Bootz) to hear them argue about Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary.

I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:48 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

That should be the end of this discussion.

And the "but his team sucked, not him" is the most pathetic excuse in the world.

I'm starting to think that Ken has a life-size Tony Romo doll.

I feel like Brad Pitt in the movie Moneyball. I'm in a room full of old school scouts whose analysis is 'the ball jumps off his bat' and 'if he had confidence he'd have a better looking girlfriend.'

With all the ways to measure games, performances and careers, it's like going into a barber shop (sit down, Bootz) to hear them argue about Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary.

I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.


And like Billy Beane, in the end Romo and he always still came up short. And so did you here. Good night, Ken.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:57 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:I feel like Brad Pitt in the movie Moneyball. I'm in a room full of old school scouts whose analysis is 'the ball jumps off his bat' and 'if he had confidence he'd have a better looking girlfriend.'

With all the ways to measure games, performances and careers, it's like going into a barber shop (sit down, Bootz) to hear them argue about Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary.

I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.


And like Billy Beane, in the end Romo and he always still came up short. And so did you here. Good night, Ken.

I'm not surprised that is what you got from the movie, Bootz.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:04 am

Ken Carson wrote:I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.


So people that don't think Romo is a HoF QB are antiquated? :(

Btw, you never answered my Carson Palmer or Matt Ryan question. If neither of them ever take another NFL snap, would they also be in the HoF along w/ Romo?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Caradoc » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:01 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

That should be the end of this discussion.

And the "but his team sucked, not him" is the most pathetic excuse in the world.

I'm starting to think that Ken has a life-size Tony Romo doll.

I feel like Brad Pitt in the movie Moneyball. I'm in a room full of old school scouts whose analysis is 'the ball jumps off his bat' and 'if he had confidence he'd have a better looking girlfriend.'

With all the ways to measure games, performances and careers, it's like going into a barber shop (sit down, Bootz) to hear them argue about Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary.

I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.



Yeeaahhh... YOU are the one with special insight and wisdom, everyone else is an idiot.

Sounds legit.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby terrytate » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Stats since around 2000 or so can not be measured against those of old time QB's. It's a different era and the stats have ballooned.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:I'll just let you guys have your safe space. But you sound like dinosaurs.


So people that don't think Romo is a HoF QB are antiquated? :(

Btw, you never answered my Carson Palmer or Matt Ryan question. If neither of them ever take another NFL snap, would they also be in the HoF along w/ Romo?

Both Palmer and Ryan have volume numbers, but they both have been less efficient than Romo. Ryan has been in the high 80s and low 90s in QB rating his whole career until last season. Palmer is a career high 80s guy. Romo also has a half yard advantage in yards per attempt, meaning every attempt he threw over the course of his career gained a half yard more than those two.

So, while I think the case can be made for them even at this point, they don't have Romo's statistical argument. Also, you'd probably win a bar bet if you tried to get someone to guess which of Marty Ice and Tony Romo had more 4th quarter comebacks (they both have 25, Ryan has started a full season more games).

And I don't think that you are ancient for coming to the conclusion that Romo isn't a HoF. I think your method for coming to that conclusion is what screams 'the world is flat.'
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby MJW » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:40 pm

Curious how many QBs are in the Hall that claim, "that one wildcard game against the Lions" as their crowning moment.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Caradoc » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:20 am

Kenny is now officially Bootzing.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:56 am

Caradoc wrote:Kenny is now officially Bootzing.

If Bootzing means applying statistical information and doing conparitative analysis instead of relying solely on a partially informed opinion using subjective means, then guilty as charged.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:09 am

MJW wrote:Curious how many QBs are in the Hall that claim, "that one wildcard game against the Lions" as their crowning moment.

If the Hall is a measure of individual achievement in a team sport with 53-man rosters and 24 starting positions, then you really shouldn't hold team accomplishments as the gold standard for entry.

Plus, and this is what I hate about your type of analysis, if the refs don't botch that call in the 2014 game against the Packers in the playoffs, and Romo leads them to a win in Lambeau after his defense and running back coughed up a second half lead, then he has his 'crowning achievement.' Maybe they even win the Super Bowl. But because the NFL doesn't know what a catch is, Romo does not get 'his moment.' In fact, it gets held against him as another playoff loss.

Subjective bullshit is a cancer to football analysis.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby RedLeader » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:41 am

"Oh man.. I wish I could go back in time...


I'd take State!!"
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby deltbucs » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:50 pm

Brad Johnson should be in the HoF, because he's the only QB in history to throw a TD pass to himself!

If you don't agree with me, then you're a dinosaur and need your safe space.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Buc2 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:43 pm

deltbucs wrote:Brad Johnson should be in the HoF, because he's the only QB in history to throw a TD pass to himself!

If you don't agree with me, then you're a dinosaur and need your safe space.

Plus he had a cool nickname. Romo... Not so much.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:16 am

You guys can all put your money where your mouth is. Vegas has Romo as a favorite to get into the Hall of Fame.
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