Romo: Retired

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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Deja Entendu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:01 pm

I'd have a hard time voting for him. He was a great player, and certainly better than his post-season resume implies; however, to draw a comparison to another fringe player: McNabb is someone that I would never vote into the HOF, and, while I think Romo was a much better QB, would it be "right" to put him in over someone with McNabb's resume?

There are lots of very very good, and even great players, that just aren't HOF caliber. I'd say Romo is one of those.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:20 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Genuinely I apologize. I wasn't trying to be an ass with that comment. I thought you knew Lynch was there in Denver and had no faith in him. My bad.

Appreciated and accepted. Until Deja E reminded me, I had completely forgotten about Paxton. I must admit that, as I've gotten older, I'm more prone to forgetting **** these days.

All that said, it appears the Broncos might just stick with Siemian & Lynch...

@RapSheet
The #Broncos are moving forward with Trevor Siemian & Paxton Lynch.


Considering where they drafted Lynch (26th overall last year), I'm not sure why they wanted Romo to begin with. Put him in as your starter during camp, give him all the 1st team reps and run with it. Unless they really don't think he's going to be their QBOTF. If he is...then just let him play and Siemian is back up.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby BucaRican » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:17 pm

On a side note its Crazy how popular football is, Todays topic of discussion on every sports media outlet was the NCAA Championship game. That all became washed out once the news of Romo got out, and Romo taking a CBS broadcaster gig is the featured story of all. I just found that funny, and impressive. Football rules
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Cheb » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:28 pm

While you could make the case for Romo being in the Hall, and he likely has a shot to make it in a weak year, I wouldn't say he's a slam dunk selection. I would vote Romo into the Hall of Very Good, right up there with Ronde Barber.

Good on him. I hope his new life after playing is fruitful.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby terrytate » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:40 pm

The headline should actually read,

Texans: Screwed
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Super K » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:43 pm

terrytate wrote:The headline should actually read,

Texans: Screwed
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:18 pm

Tony Romo is a Hall of Fame quarterback. If Aikman is in, Romo should be a lock. In a team sport like football, you cannot use championships as the measurement of a great individual player.

This Hall of Very Good nonsense with Romo is based on a dropped extra point and misconception.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Teitan » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:26 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Tony Romo is a Hall of Fame quarterback. If Aikman is in, Romo should be a lock. In a team sport like football, you cannot use championships as the measurement of a great individual player.

This Hall of Very Good nonsense with Romo is based on a dropped extra point and misconception.



I disagree. If Romo was leading the Cowboys to the playoffs every year and getting close that's one thing. He was essentially the leader of a team that consistently went 8-8. Yes, it's a team sport. But you're being silly if you think for a second that it doesn't factor into it. No championship and not a lot of winning seasons will make Romo that fringe guy that makes it a couple rounds into the voting but loses out. He may get in during a weak HoF class year down the road. He'll consistently get close because there definitely is a faction of media members that harp the "Romo doesn't get the respect he deserves" narrative. His stats really are surprisingly solid when you look at them. But he's always going to have that monkey on his back of never winning anything important.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:05 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Tony Romo is a Hall of Fame quarterback. If Aikman is in, Romo should be a lock. In a team sport like football, you cannot use championships as the measurement of a great individual player.

This Hall of Very Good nonsense with Romo is based on a dropped extra point and misconception.


I'm going to meet you halfway and say that you're right...it is a team sport and perhaps we should consider that more when evaluating QBs, specifically in cases like Romo. It's not like Romo drafted Felix Jones over Chris Johnson and Mike Jenkins...at all. ETC. QB doesn't set the 53 and losses take all of them to happen. Romo retired with the 3rd best QB rating in NFL history and he was rarely the reason Dallas lost games when they lost, despite the narrative.

That said, did I ever watch Tony Romo play and think, "Gosh, I'm going to tell my grandkids about this guy?" No. I didn't. Peyton, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc. Never felt that way about Romo. I never felt like I was watching a transcendent player. I feel the same way about Rivers, honestly. Stat collector, beloved by the fanbase, had some monster years, and a big part of the story of his era. But am I ever going to say, "Man, you guys missed out in never seeing Tony Romo play?" No.

As such, no HOF vote from me, in case the committee should ask.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Caradoc » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:30 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Tony Romo is NOT a Hall of Fame quarterback.


FIFY.

Seriously though, he isn't even high in the realm of great players who never won anything. He's just a guy who was good, never great.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 am

Teitan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Tony Romo is a Hall of Fame quarterback. If Aikman is in, Romo should be a lock. In a team sport like football, you cannot use championships as the measurement of a great individual player.

This Hall of Very Good nonsense with Romo is based on a dropped extra point and misconception.



I disagree. If Romo was leading the Cowboys to the playoffs every year and getting close that's one thing. He was essentially the leader of a team that consistently went 8-8. Yes, it's a team sport. But you're being silly if you think for a second that it doesn't factor into it. No championship and not a lot of winning seasons will make Romo that fringe guy that makes it a couple rounds into the voting but loses out. He may get in during a weak HoF class year down the road. He'll consistently get close because there definitely is a faction of media members that harp the "Romo doesn't get the respect he deserves" narrative. His stats really are surprisingly solid when you look at them. But he's always going to have that monkey on his back of never winning anything important.

The monkey on his back is a figment of your imagination. He has 'surprisingly solid' numbers? No, he has numbers that are better than Kurt Warner. If Romo was surrounded by the Greatest Show on Turf or Fitzgerald/Boldin in their primes, maybe he wins a few more playoff games.

And if you want some real funny stuff, look up Romo's numbers and Aikman's numbers. Then compare the level of talent Aikman played with vs. Romo. And then read this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... han-i-was/
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:51 am

I'll pose this question as plainly as I can for Ken (and anyone else:)

Did you feel like you were watching an all-time great when you watched Romo?

I did not. Is it more complicated than that? Sure. Otherwise Bo Jackson would be in the Hall and Art Monk would be out. But that doesn't mean that shouldn't be what we're talking about here.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:21 am

MJW wrote:I'll pose this question as plainly as I can for Ken (and anyone else:)

Did you feel like you were watching an all-time great when you watched Romo?

I did not. Is it more complicated than that? Sure. Otherwise Bo Jackson would be in the Hall and Art Monk would be out. But that doesn't mean that shouldn't be what we're talking about here.

Hey, I know what makes for great Hall of Fame discussions. Totally subjective nonsense.

When watching Tony Romo play, I always found myself saying, 'Wow, this guy is criminally underrated by fans. He is putting up numbers that rival the best in the game and mouth-breathing fans can only think about him as a guy who muffed a hold.'

Funny thing too was when Dak Prescott got heaps of praise for how well he played in losing to the Packers. Romo has the exact same game and everyone who was praising Dak would say 'See, Romo just can't win the big one.'

Also, for another stat you probably didn't know, Romo led more 4th quarter comebacks than: Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young and Bart Starr. And the exact same number as Troy Aikman and Kurt Warner... COMBINED.

You're the perfect example of why people underrate Romo. Subjective analysis that has no basis in on-field performance.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Buc2 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:52 am

Don't worry, Ken. He'll get in the HoF. He's a Cowboy.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Doctor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:12 am

If Romo should get in there's a long list of other players before him, like McNabb.

With that said who had the better career Romo or McNabb? Who would you rather have had in your franchise?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:38 am

Romo isn't a HoF QB imo.

Only 7 seasons starting more than 10 games, 4 winning seasons in those 7. In those 4 winning seasons he went a combined 2-4 in the playoffs.

No league MVP's, No 1st team All-Pro selections, and only one 2nd team selection in 2014. Romo was NEVER considered the best QB, or even in the tier of elite QBs other than 2014 in what turned out to be his final full NFL season.

248TDs may pass muster, but the lack of postseason success as well as never being considered the best at his position makes me think he isn't HOF worthy.

Fouts is a decent comparison on face value, but it was a different era and Fouts was considered among the best QBs (NFL MVP in '82, 4x All-Pro) in the NFL at the time before Marino burst onto the scene.

At the end of the day if a player is never considered one of the best at his position for more than a season or two I have a tough time considering them for the HoF. Romo was a underrated and played great for brief stretches late in his career. But couldn't sustain that performance due to injury and that is what will keep him out of the HoF imo. Had he been able to be healthy these last 2 seasons I think the Cowboys are in one of the last 2 SB's, which would've probably got him over the top.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Kress » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:06 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Hey, I know what makes for great Hall of Fame discussions. Totally subjective nonsense.

When watching Tony Romo play, I always found myself saying, 'Wow, this guy is criminally underrated by fans. He is putting up numbers that rival the best in the game and mouth-breathing fans can only think about him as a guy who muffed a hold.'

Funny thing too was when Dak Prescott got heaps of praise for how well he played in losing to the Packers. Romo has the exact same game and everyone who was praising Dak would say 'See, Romo just can't win the big one.'

Also, for another stat you probably didn't know, Romo led more 4th quarter comebacks than: Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young and Bart Starr. And the exact same number as Troy Aikman and Kurt Warner... COMBINED.

You're the perfect example of why people underrate Romo. Subjective analysis that has no basis in on-field performance.



This. He's the LeBron James of quarterbacks.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Kress wrote:This. He's the LeBron James of quarterbacks.


/Blue
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:16 pm

Kress wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Hey, I know what makes for great Hall of Fame discussions. Totally subjective nonsense.

When watching Tony Romo play, I always found myself saying, 'Wow, this guy is criminally underrated by fans. He is putting up numbers that rival the best in the game and mouth-breathing fans can only think about him as a guy who muffed a hold.'

Funny thing too was when Dak Prescott got heaps of praise for how well he played in losing to the Packers. Romo has the exact same game and everyone who was praising Dak would say 'See, Romo just can't win the big one.'

Also, for another stat you probably didn't know, Romo led more 4th quarter comebacks than: Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young and Bart Starr. And the exact same number as Troy Aikman and Kurt Warner... COMBINED.

You're the perfect example of why people underrate Romo. Subjective analysis that has no basis in on-field performance.



This. He's the LeBron James of quarterbacks.


Yea minus the rings. And MVPs. And finals games. And talent. And production. Other than that, spot on comparison..
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:01 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Romo isn't a HoF QB imo.

Only 7 seasons starting more than 10 games, 4 winning seasons in those 7. In those 4 winning seasons he went a combined 2-4 in the playoffs.

No league MVP's, No 1st team All-Pro selections, and only one 2nd team selection in 2014. Romo was NEVER considered the best QB, or even in the tier of elite QBs other than 2014 in what turned out to be his final full NFL season.

248TDs may pass muster, but the lack of postseason success as well as never being considered the best at his position makes me think he isn't HOF worthy.

Fouts is a decent comparison on face value, but it was a different era and Fouts was considered among the best QBs (NFL MVP in '82, 4x All-Pro) in the NFL at the time before Marino burst onto the scene.

At the end of the day if a player is never considered one of the best at his position for more than a season or two I have a tough time considering them for the HoF. Romo was a underrated and played great for brief stretches late in his career. But couldn't sustain that performance due to injury and that is what will keep him out of the HoF imo. Had he been able to be healthy these last 2 seasons I think the Cowboys are in one of the last 2 SB's, which would've probably got him over the top.

So he didn't play enough for you (missed too many games), but he has numbers that stack up with Hall of Famers. How do you do that without being one of the best during your time on the field?

You state exactly the problem: 'he was never considered one of the best' is because the narrative was WRONG.
When Aaron Rodgers won the MVP in 2014, Romo didn't even get a first place vote, despite leading the league in both QB Rating and QBR (better than Rodgers) with only 5 fewer TD passes despite throwing 85 fewer passes.

Every season he played at least 11 games, he threw 26+ TD passes (seven times). Troy Aikman threw more than 20 TD passes ONCE.

Point blank: was Aikman a better QB or was Romo?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Buc2 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Point blank: was Aikman a better QB or was Romo?


Point blank, does two wrongs make a right? I never thought Aikman should have been in the HoF either.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby NYBF » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
.irishHITMAN4rent wrote:Is he HoF worthy????


Maybe but not 1st ballot


Does he get better after the first time you vote for him?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Aikmen had more pro bowl appearances and 1st team all pro selections than Romo did in fewer seasons played. Also had fewer Super Bowl MVP awards too. Aikmen is not the measuring stick as to whether or not Tony Romo should be in the HOF.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:20 pm

NYBF wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Maybe but not 1st ballot


Does he get better after the first time you vote for him?


You would have to ask the committee that question.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Aikmen had more pro bowl appearances and 1st team all pro selections than Romo did in fewer seasons played. Also had fewer Super Bowl MVP awards too. Aikmen is not the measuring stick as to whether or not Tony Romo should be in the HOF.

Point blank: was Aikman better than Romo?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:32 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Aikmen had more pro bowl appearances and 1st team all pro selections than Romo did in fewer seasons played. Also had fewer Super Bowl MVP awards too. Aikmen is not the measuring stick as to whether or not Tony Romo should be in the HOF.

Point blank: was Aikman better than Romo?


Yes
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Point blank: was Aikman better than Romo?


Yes

Thanks for invalidating every subjective statement you will ever make regarding football.
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Yes

Thanks for invalidating every subjective statement you will ever make regarding football.


Why, because your opinion differs from many others as well as career achievements?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Ken Carson wrote:So he didn't play enough for you (missed too many games), but he has numbers that stack up with Hall of Famers. How do you do that without being one of the best during your time on the field?

My point was that Romo's career stats barley pass muster for HoF consideration due to not becoming a starter until he was 26 and injuries that interrupted and ultimately ended his career at it's peak. His stats alone don't get him in, and since he doesn't have the team success (which DOES matter for the QB position) I don't think his resume is HoF worthy. I'll go on record and say that no QB that stated their career AFTER the year 1995 will get in the HoF with under 250 TDs unless they have multiple SB titles. It's just not that impressive when compared to modern QBs that have over 300. Matt Ryan is going to pass Romo's career TD mark early next season in what will be his 10th season. Is Matt Ryan a HoF QB if he never played another down? Similar stats to Romo and Ryan made it to a SB.

Ken Carson wrote:You state exactly the problem: 'he was never considered one of the best' is because the narrative was WRONG.
When Aaron Rodgers won the MVP in 2014, Romo didn't even get a first place vote, despite leading the league in both QB Rating and QBR (better than Rodgers) with only 5 fewer TD passes despite throwing 85 fewer passes.

I agree with alot of your argument for Romo. He was underrated and over/unfairly scrutinized to some degree. Romo was great in in 2014, which I mentioned in my post. But that was his last NFL season so he was unable to sustain that performance in '15-'16 which probably would've help his HoF case based on his play and team around him. But before 2014 when was Tony Romo EVER considered to be one of the best 2-3 QBs in the NFL? Imo the answer is never. So can I put Romo in the HoF based on 1 great season?

Ken Carson wrote:Every season he played at least 11 games, he threw 26+ TD passes (seven times). Troy Aikman threw more than 20 TD passes ONCE.

Point blank: was Aikman a better QB or was Romo?

Aikman

A HoF resume for QB is more than just stats, especially when comparing eras. Playoff success, Super Bowl berths, Championships, longevity, are all factors. Romo's 248TDs are borderline, in 10 years 248TDs won't mean nearly as much as it does now.

Here is a question for you, If Carson Palmer never plays another NFL down is he a HoF QB? If not, why is Romo?
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Re: Romo: Retired

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:00 pm

NYBF wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Maybe but not 1st ballot


Does he get better after the first time you vote for him?


No, but there is precedence/distinction for 1st ballot HoF players. Guys like Cris Carter come to mind as great players and obvious HoF resume, but didn't get in 1st ballot.

A first ballot HoF player is guy that was an all-timer, perennial all-pro over his career, can't tell the history of the game without mentioning his name. Even some of them don't get in 1st ballot.
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