Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANYONE?

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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:46 am

MJW wrote:
Kress wrote:


And there it is.

And frankly, that sucks. That's life. That's reality. That's business. But that sucks. It sucks that nobody remembers that Seahawks DE Frank Clark stole a laptop from a teammate and choked out a pregnant woman and he went in the 2nd round, but CK and his rock-stupid politics have made him radioactive to teams. Joe Mixon will go on Day Two with video of him knocking out a woman half his size in Subway, but CK and his politics...can't have that.

And it sucks even more that clowns like Bootz think it's his "tape" keeping him off a roster. Yeah, that's it. Matt Barkley had better "tape" than CK, that's why he has a job.


The salary considerations are also a factor w/ veteran back-ups like Cutler and Kaep. Those guys are looking to be paid "top back-up" $$ at the least. Where as Barkley will play for much less.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby MJW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:56 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:
And there it is.

And frankly, that sucks. That's life. That's reality. That's business. But that sucks. It sucks that nobody remembers that Seahawks DE Frank Clark stole a laptop from a teammate and choked out a pregnant woman and he went in the 2nd round, but CK and his rock-stupid politics have made him radioactive to teams. Joe Mixon will go on Day Two with video of him knocking out a woman half his size in Subway, but CK and his politics...can't have that.

And it sucks even more that clowns like Bootz think it's his "tape" keeping him off a roster. Yeah, that's it. Matt Barkley had better "tape" than CK, that's why he has a job.


The salary considerations are also a factor w/ veteran back-ups like Cutler and Kaep. Those guys are looking to be paid "top back-up" $$ at the least. Where as Barkley will play for much less.


I'm willing to accept that theoretically. It could be that CK's agent is telling teams not to bother for less than X a year, and X is too much.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Buc You » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:16 am

obsolete wrote:Someone who would take such a stand and isnt attention seeking would surely cast a vote for change, right?

Too bad there was none to vote for.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby threadkiller » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:09 am

MJW wrote:
Kress wrote:


And there it is.

And frankly, that sucks. That's life. That's reality. That's business. But that sucks. It sucks that nobody remembers that Seahawks DE Frank Clark stole a laptop from a teammate and choked out a pregnant woman and he went in the 2nd round, but CK and his rock-stupid politics have made him radioactive to teams. Joe Mixon will go on Day Two with video of him knocking out a woman half his size in Subway, but CK and his politics...can't have that.

And it sucks even more that clowns like Bootz think it's his "tape" keeping him off a roster. Yeah, that's it. Matt Barkley had better "tape" than CK, that's why he has a job.


I get that perspective. Obviously protesting the anthem is not worse than clocking some chick, or any number of actual crimes. But none of the scummy players are looked at to be putting something before their profession. When that happens (like with continued recreational drug use), teams back away fast. Teams will evaluate Mixon's character, but none believe he has a passion for hitting women. Colin made a choice to do something week after week that a team can't expressly stop him from doing. He said he would not do it in the future, but is under no obligation from any authority to follow through on that.

As far as his tape, that is a contributing factor. It's very ligitimate to look at his tape and not see an obvious franchise QB to build an offense around. Were his tape that good, his protests would not keep him from being signed. He has better tape than some who are dedicated backup QBs, but who wants a controversial dedicated backup QB? You don't sign a player who you don't plan to play that will cause distraction to your football team. There are too many other guys who can fill that role quietly.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:21 am

I just think Kaep is still unemployed for some of same reasons Cutler is. They are both former starting QB in the NFL that made $15m+ per year. It's fair to say that neither is going be starting atop an NFL depth chart come TC or making $15m in 2017.

With the draft next month there is no impetus for a team to make the decision on bringing in a vet QB to compete right now. Let the draft run it's course and teams will re-evaluate their depth charts, then maybe a market for Kaep or Cutler will materialize. The same analogy applies to the RB position with all the vet FA guys still looking for teams. The market is low right now b/c teams are fine waiting to see what they can address in the draft.

I think there is some truth to NFL teams not wanting the back-up QB to be lightning rod. But it's still NFL football and a team will sign Kaep or Cutler if the need is there.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:37 am

Very good point, Dread. Teams can't automatically assume that a 29 year old QB who opted out of a contract that would've paid him some $14mil is willingly going to be content signing for a minimal 1 year deal with no chance to start. Same with Cutler. Our starting QB situation is set. Those guys aren't signing here. Same with a number of teams in the league.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:46 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Very good point, Dread. Teams can't automatically assume that a 29 year old QB who opted out of a contract that would've paid him some $14mil is willingly going to be content signing for a minimal 1 year deal with no chance to start. Same with Cutler. Our starting QB situation is set. Those guys aren't signing here. Same with a number of teams in the league.


Seems most are overlooking this.

I absolutely believe that his stance is a red flag for teams, some more than others, but this is the main reason why he is not employed yet. He wants to start and opted out of a contract for that. If no one bites, I fully expect him to sign after the draft.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:53 pm

There is also the fact that Kaep has just 4 wins in his last 24 starts (4-20 :stoner: )
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby MJW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:56 pm

DreadNaught wrote:There is also the fact that Kaep has just 4 wins in his last 24 starts (4-20 :stoner: )


Not everyone can rack up the Ws like Josh McCown I 'spose.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Teitan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:05 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Very good point, Dread. Teams can't automatically assume that a 29 year old QB who opted out of a contract that would've paid him some $14mil is willingly going to be content signing for a minimal 1 year deal with no chance to start. Same with Cutler. Our starting QB situation is set. Those guys aren't signing here. Same with a number of teams in the league.



A couple months ago I was talking to a friend of mine and I brought up that this is a bad time to be a veteran QB looking for that journeyman job. Look around the league. MOST of the teams right now, for the first time in awhile, have a franchise QB or a guy they've recently drafted and have their hopes for. Who has a bad QB situation right now? Texans, 49ers, Jets, Browns maybe the Jags. Everyone else is pretty set at the moment. And the draft hasn't even happened yet..
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:05 pm

Teitan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Very good point, Dread. Teams can't automatically assume that a 29 year old QB who opted out of a contract that would've paid him some $14mil is willingly going to be content signing for a minimal 1 year deal with no chance to start. Same with Cutler. Our starting QB situation is set. Those guys aren't signing here. Same with a number of teams in the league.



A couple months ago I was talking to a friend of mine and I brought up that this is a bad time to be a veteran QB looking for that journeyman job. Look around the league. MOST of the teams right now, for the first time in awhile, have a franchise QB or a guy they've recently drafted and have their hopes for. Who has a bad QB situation right now? Texans, 49ers, Jets, Browns maybe the Jags. Everyone else is pretty set at the moment. And the draft hasn't even happened yet..


Yea that's very true. The QB position is very strong in the league now. It's possible that after the draft these vets sign with a team in need of a veteran presence. Maybe to groom the young QBs that will be drafted. But for the most part a good portion of the league is set at QB.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Teitan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:23 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Teitan wrote:

A couple months ago I was talking to a friend of mine and I brought up that this is a bad time to be a veteran QB looking for that journeyman job. Look around the league. MOST of the teams right now, for the first time in awhile, have a franchise QB or a guy they've recently drafted and have their hopes for. Who has a bad QB situation right now? Texans, 49ers, Jets, Browns maybe the Jags. Everyone else is pretty set at the moment. And the draft hasn't even happened yet..


Yea that's very true. The QB position is very strong in the league now. It's possible that after the draft these vets sign with a team in need of a veteran presence. Maybe to groom the young QBs that will be drafted. But for the most part a good portion of the league is set at QB.



And you gotta figure Romo will be somewhere. So that's 4 jobs.

It's very interesting that the league seems to be getting set at QBs of the future. The most important position and most of the league has one right now. I'd break it down as:

Needs a QB:
49ers
Browns
Jets
Jags
Texans

Will need a QB soon:
Cardinals
Cheifs
Chargers
Bears
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Swashy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:02 pm

I'm probably being a little more than dense but I have the feeling the Vikings and Dolphins could end up being in the market for a QB sooner than anyone thinks. I'm not implying that what they have at QB is bad but I certainly don't see a guy amongst the cast of Tannehill, Bridgewater and Bradford that's gonna take either of those teams to the next level. For that reason I agree heavily with the assessment that the Chiefs will be the market for a QB soon -although perhaps your reasons may be different than mine. As for the Redskins the nicest thing I can say about their situation with Cousins is that it's a mess. YIKES!

The only bigger mess seems to be this year's QB class. I truly, deeply feel bad anyone who needs a QB right now and is gonna spend a 1st rounder on it.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby MJW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:27 pm

Swashy wrote:I'm probably being a little more than dense but I have the feeling the Vikings and Dolphins could end up being in the market for a QB sooner than anyone thinks. I'm not implying that what they have at QB is bad but I certainly don't see a guy amongst the cast of Tannehill, Bridgewater and Bradford that's gonna take either of those teams to the next level. For that reason I agree heavily with the assessment that the Chiefs will be the market for a QB soon -although perhaps your reasons may be different than mine. As for the Redskins the nicest thing I can say about their situation with Cousins is that it's a mess. YIKES!

The only bigger mess seems to be this year's QB class. I truly, deeply feel bad anyone who needs a QB right now and is gonna spend a 1st rounder on it.


Here is a complete list of teams I would bet serious money will have the same starters in 2020 as they will in 2017:
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Atlanta
Seattle
Cincinnati (maybe)
Indianapolis
Oakland

That's to say that 75% of the league I would NOT bet heavily on having the same starter in three years as they will this year. That's not to say many of them won't. Many of them will. But most of them won't, including some we're not thinking about right now.

In other words, the QB business is always booming, and if you can play, you'll find a job.

Unless, of course, your politics are unpopular, I guess.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby MJW » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:10 am

Mark Sanchez and his great tape meet with Bears.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Kress » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:10 am

MJW wrote:
Swashy wrote:I'm probably being a little more than dense but I have the feeling the Vikings and Dolphins could end up being in the market for a QB sooner than anyone thinks. I'm not implying that what they have at QB is bad but I certainly don't see a guy amongst the cast of Tannehill, Bridgewater and Bradford that's gonna take either of those teams to the next level. For that reason I agree heavily with the assessment that the Chiefs will be the market for a QB soon -although perhaps your reasons may be different than mine. As for the Redskins the nicest thing I can say about their situation with Cousins is that it's a mess. YIKES!

The only bigger mess seems to be this year's QB class. I truly, deeply feel bad anyone who needs a QB right now and is gonna spend a 1st rounder on it.


Here is a complete list of teams I would bet serious money will have the same starters in 2020 as they will in 2017:
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Atlanta
Seattle
Cincinnati (maybe)
Indianapolis
Oakland

That's to say that 75% of the league I would NOT bet heavily on having the same starter in three years as they will this year. That's not to say many of them won't. Many of them will. But most of them won't, including some we're not thinking about right now.

In other words, the QB business is always booming, and if you can play, you'll find a job.

Unless, of course, your politics are unpopular, I guess.



This.

The QB market is always in play. It's too easy to sit here right now and say that a team is "set." Hell, we were "set" with Freeman for a minute or two. The Redskins were all good with RGIII. The 9ers were good with Kaepernick.....

That's why I agreed with you in one of these threads recently about routinely drafting a QB. They're like a box of chocolates. You can get a Vince Young in round 1, or you can get a Tom Brady in 6. Who the hell knows, but the only way to find out is to pull the trigger.
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Re: Is Colin Kaepernick An Option For Us? What About For ANY

Postby Caradoc » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Here is a complete list of teams I would bet serious money will have the same starters in 2020 as they will in 2017:
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Atlanta
Seattle
Cincinnati (maybe)
Indianapolis
Oakland



Your entire scenario has huge problems. First, the 2020 season is the fourth season from now.. Teams aren't looking for their 2020 QB, they're looking for their 2017 QB. (other than maybe New England). Teams just don't look that far out, partly because of "win now" but also (and correctly) because too many things can change in that time. At most a team might draft a guy to sit a year, but almost never more than that.


Also, you are pulling a mini-PFF there. Putting out a subjective hypothetical, then using a percentage derived from that to make it look like math. Unfortunately it isn't. Not only is is just your opinion and nothing more, but it's also an oversimplification of the situation.

First, you completely overlooked Tennessee, GB, Lions, Ravens and NYG (Manning has at least 3 more in him). I could easily argue Philly will likely stay with Wentz. Miami isn't going anywhere. Cousins is either going to get resigned or go to SF, WASH won't tag him next year, so while he isn't lined up for 2018 yet, he's not really that much of a wild card (you could almost count him twice as he's probably keeping 2 franchise from moving in FA). Between Bridgewater and Bradford, Minnesota isn't looking anywhere else any time soon. I would also doubt Alex Smith goes anywhere in the next few years. Just with that there are 9 (10 if you include Cousins even once) more teams not looking any time soon. So, about 18 teams not looking anywhere this year or next. Suddenly your 75% looks more like sub 50%. Then add on the teams that recently drafted guys that will probably be given some time in LARams and Denver (and possibly NYJ, scuttlebutt says they actually like Hackman). You can also add on people who aren't looking to sign a big FA because they aren't sure about their QB like Jax. Oh, and also add on people who aren't going to sign a FA to be the future because they have their QB if only for a couple or few years - Chargers, NO, NE, PIT. Add in the Bears who already signed Glennon as their bridge. Finally, none of the FA QBs is realistically seen as a potential answer, at best they are a bridge, so people don't sign them as an answer unless their situation is far worse so even a situation like Buffalo they might sign Tyrod back as the better option.

So, about 26 or more of 32 teams aren't really in the market for a "Big" FA QB. Or, subjective-mathly over 80% NOT looking for a QB. Heck even AZ is probably waiting until next year.

You're looking at realistic openings where you have a chance to sign this year and become a real starter at what, the Browns? Texans? Possibly Buffalo. And I say Browns only because this QB class looks lame. They might feel differently.

Teitan is right, this is a bear market for FA QBs, and we haven't seen it like this in quite some time.
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