Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby ImAWalkingCorpse » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:15 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:Good to have competition, but I'm hoping that Aguayo gets out of that funk and can be our kicker long term because if he loses out to Folk and is cut we'll be looking at kicker again really soon.

Aguayo doesn't have an NFL leg, last year proved it. The sooner he is off the team, the better.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:11 am

ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:Good to have competition, but I'm hoping that Aguayo gets out of that funk and can be our kicker long term because if he loses out to Folk and is cut we'll be looking at kicker again really soon.

Aguayo doesn't have an NFL leg, last year proved it. The sooner he is off the team, the better.

It's not physical, it's mental...
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Nano » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:18 am

Could also be spiritual
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby MJW » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:30 am

Nano wrote:Could also be spiritual


Are you trying to say that Jesus Christ can't hit a field goal?

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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby ImAWalkingCorpse » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:09 pm

VauntedTampa2 wrote:
ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:Aguayo doesn't have an NFL leg, last year proved it. The sooner he is off the team, the better.

It's not physical, it's mental...

No, he literally does not have the leg strength to hit longer NFL field goals.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:13 pm

FO must be a bunch of idiots.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby AMERICAN MUSCLE » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:57 pm

I want the best kicker to win, obviously, but if it's Folk, we are still left with the embarrassment of trading up and drafting a kicker in the second round that was a complete bust. #itsabucslife #siegetheday #2017moniker
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby terrytate » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:06 pm

ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:Good to have competition, but I'm hoping that Aguayo gets out of that funk and can be our kicker long term because if he loses out to Folk and is cut we'll be looking at kicker again really soon.

Aguayo doesn't have an NFL leg, last year proved it. The sooner he is off the team, the better.



That was my biggest problem with Aguayo. If you are going to spend a kick on a kicker, you better be getting one that can convert those long kicks in addition to being accurate at short range. A guy drafted in the second had better strong in every single area of the kicking game.

I get what the Bucs were thinking by taken a kicker so early. With the new rules, kicker became a bigger priority...one that they felt now warranted a higher pick. If the right guy was on the board, they might well have a case.

As of now though, that pick is a sunk cost. we just need to figure out who the best kicker for us is. Hope Aguayo can do it, if not it is time to go.
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Re: Nick Folk?

Postby terrytate » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:59 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Stephen Gotskowski......he doesn't fit your agenda though. Belichick
drafted a kicker too. Such an idiot....


Protip: If you have one or two examples of a strategy working out well over, say, a 20 year period...

It's a bad strategy ;)



As I said in another thread, "The Patriots did it" is never a valid argument unless you also have a Bill Belichick on the payroll.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Teitan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:09 pm

ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:
VauntedTampa2 wrote:It's not physical, it's mental...

No, he literally does not have the leg strength to hit longer NFL field goals.



Yeah, those field goals are longer in NFL yards than NCAA yards. I wish they'd use the same measurement of distance.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Kress » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:49 am

Bowing down to embarrassment over a draft pick is the equivalent of doubling down on stupid. Just own up and fix it. Don't try to hide what we can all see. This is otherwise known as Bootzing.

Know when you are wrong!
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:54 am

Embarrassment? Really? Who gives a ****. We drafted guys like Sabby and Dexter Jackson in the second. In fact, embarrassing ourselves in the second round is more the norm than not. The only difference is that we now have a GM that doesn't let the egg on his face blind him. Sign Folk, but open the race, let the best man win. Period. Move on.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Kress » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:09 am

That was my point. Don't double down.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby NYBF » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:29 am

Teitan wrote:
ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:No, he literally does not have the leg strength to hit longer NFL field goals.



Yeah, those field goals are longer in NFL yards than NCAA yards. I wish they'd use the same measurement of distance.


They use meters in the NFL.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby ImAWalkingCorpse » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:41 am

Teitan wrote:
ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:No, he literally does not have the leg strength to hit longer NFL field goals.



Yeah, those field goals are longer in NFL yards than NCAA yards. I wish they'd use the same measurement of distance.

He attempted 10 FG's of 40 yards or longer his 2015 season. He managed to hit 50% on those. He was 4-11 for the Buccaneers from that distance and was only allowed to try from 50 yards plus once. The coaching staff realized VERY early, probably even after the first off season work out he didn't have a strong leg. So, to answer your question, no he doesn't have the leg strength to hit over 40 yards consistently, and over 50? Forget it. He sucked from the start and hopefully he is released at the end of TC.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby NYBF » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:42 am

Kress wrote:Bowing down to embarrassment over a draft pick is the equivalent of doubling down on stupid. Just own up and fix it. Don't try to hide what we can all see. This is otherwise known as Bootzing.

Know when you are wrong!


...Licht has said previously (and not specifically about Aguayo) that holding onto a mistake only compounds it.

“The mistake would be to be prideful,’’ Licht said. “That’s the bigger mistake.’’


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... last-year/
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby MJW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 am

ImAWalkingCorpse wrote:
Teitan wrote:

Yeah, those field goals are longer in NFL yards than NCAA yards. I wish they'd use the same measurement of distance.

He attempted 10 FG's of 40 yards or longer his 2015 season. He managed to hit 50% on those. He was 4-11 for the Buccaneers from that distance and was only allowed to try from 50 yards plus once. The coaching staff realized VERY early, probably even after the first off season work out he didn't have a strong leg. So, to answer your question, no he doesn't have the leg strength to hit over 40 yards consistently, and over 50? Forget it. He sucked from the start and hopefully he is released at the end of TC.


The myth of Aguayo's strong leg was a funny one. He wasn't good or productive from 50+ in college, his career long was a pedestrian 53, and his kickoffs sucked.

I guess every decade we're going to make a Booker/Dexter pick.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:55 am

Is it a matter of leg strength or accuracy? Are these kicks falling well short of the goal post or to the left/right? I have a hard time believing any kicker is unable to reach the goal post from 40-50 yards.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby pewterpirates » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:57 am

I would say, "Folk beats out Aguayo in TC/preseason. We cut Aguayo. He signs with a contender. Folk sucks for us. Aguayo becomes a 10-year Pro Bowler. Because we're the Bucs" but....



...Aguayo just isn't good so I doubt he goes anywhere else and becomes a good kicker.



Seriously, how do you go an entire season without making a FG from 50 yards out? I wonder over the past 10 years, how many teams have gone an entire season without making a 50-yard FG? Even if Aguayo was hitting 95% of his kicks from inside 49, he still wouldn't make the cut b/c sometimes you need a kicker to hit a 50+ yarder in the NFL.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby MJW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:01 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Is it a matter of leg strength or accuracy? Are these kicks falling well short of the goal post or to the left/right? I have a hard time believing any kicker is unable to reach the goal post from 40-50 yards.


It has to do with having a strong enough leg that you don't have to alter your mechanics significantly on longer kicks to get the distance needed.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby MJW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:02 am

pewterpirates wrote:I would say, "Folk beats out Aguayo in TC/preseason. We cut Aguayo. He signs with a contender. Folk sucks for us. Aguayo becomes a 10-year Pro Bowler. Because we're the Bucs" but....



...Aguayo just isn't good so I doubt he goes anywhere else and becomes a good kicker.



Seriously, how do you go an entire season without making a FG from 50 yards out? I wonder over the past 10 years, how many teams have gone an entire season without making a 50-yard FG? Even if Aguayo was hitting 95% of his kicks from inside 49, he still wouldn't make the cut b/c sometimes you need a kicker to hit a 50+ yarder in the NFL.


You draft a guy in the 2nd round, he better have legit range from Matt Bryant and in.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:04 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Is it a matter of leg strength or accuracy? Are these kicks falling well short of the goal post or to the left/right? I have a hard time believing any kicker is unable to reach the goal post from 40-50 yards.


It has to do with having a strong enough leg that you don't have to alter your mechanics significantly on longer kicks to get the distance needed.


Gotcha. But I'd say nearly every kicker alters their mechanics significantly on longer kicks. Maybe some more than others. But perhaps we should all just admit that he's not who we thought he was. It seems his accuracy is very hit or miss. I don't think his leg strength is a problem.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 am

Jay Feely recently tweeted that Aguayo's form was terrible last season, which caused his issues. I don't know anything about his college career (or about kicker form to even judge that during his college career) but maybe that's something he can correct during this offseason.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby pewterpirates » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
It has to do with having a strong enough leg that you don't have to alter your mechanics significantly on longer kicks to get the distance needed.


Gotcha. But I'd say nearly every kicker alters their mechanics significantly on longer kicks. Maybe some more than others. But perhaps we should all just admit that he's not who we thought he was. It seems his accuracy is very hit or miss. I don't think his leg strength is a problem.


I'm no expert kicking coach or anything....but considering Aguayo has never done anything from 50+, wouldn't that be an automatic indicator he doesn't have the leg strength necessary to make those kicks?

I'd be curious to watch him for an entire day at practice. I wonder what percentage he makes in practice from 50+?
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:43 pm

pewterpirates wrote:Seriously, how do you go an entire season without making a FG from 50 yards out?

Let's ask....
Stephen Gostkowski, 2007 and 2010
Steven Hauschka 2009, 2010
Matt Bryant, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2015
Adam Vinatieri, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:45 pm

It's very infrequently correct to attempt a 50+ yard field goal, though it would be nice to know your kicker can make them for the times when it is necessary.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:49 pm

pewterpirates wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Gotcha. But I'd say nearly every kicker alters their mechanics significantly on longer kicks. Maybe some more than others. But perhaps we should all just admit that he's not who we thought he was. It seems his accuracy is very hit or miss. I don't think his leg strength is a problem.


I'm no expert kicking coach or anything....but considering Aguayo has never done anything from 50+, wouldn't that be an automatic indicator he doesn't have the leg strength necessary to make those kicks?

I'd be curious to watch him for an entire day at practice. I wonder what percentage he makes in practice from 50+?


If he's missing short of the goal post then yes. But if he's missing wide left or right then it's not an issue of strength. It's an issue of accuracy.
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:24 pm

Some quick background on Nick Folk...

32yrs old

Over his last 4 seasons he's

105/122 = 86.1% on ALL FGs attempts
68/71 = 95.8% inside of 40yds
37/51 = 72.5% outside of 40yds, which includes
10/15 = 66.7% outside of 50yds

Aguayo's LONG was a mere 43yds his rookie season and has just 1 attempt over 50 (missed). His overall FG% was a sad 71% (worse than Folk has been from outside of 40yds over his last 4 seasons combined).

TL:DR - Aguayo is fucked...
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Super K » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
pewterpirates wrote:
I'm no expert kicking coach or anything....but considering Aguayo has never done anything from 50+, wouldn't that be an automatic indicator he doesn't have the leg strength necessary to make those kicks?

I'd be curious to watch him for an entire day at practice. I wonder what percentage he makes in practice from 50+?


If he's missing short of the goal post then yes. But if he's missing wide left or right then it's not an issue of strength. It's an issue of accuracy.


Here's the thing with Bobby, and I stated this issue in the "Draft Roberto" thread...

In order for him to get enough distance on long FG's he has to change his trajectory..He kicks MUCH lower..This effects his accuracy and also puts him in position for a blocked kick (see GT game 2015)..

Roberto was money, absolute money his freshman year because that Noles offense was on fire..rarely did he have a kick longer than 40 yards..Hence his great %..

But he got worse every year in college..Not a good sign..

And it dropped drastically..

95.5 in 2013

90 in 2014

80.8 in 2015

And now 71% in 2016..

Dread is right..He's fucked..
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Re: Buccaneers signing Nick Folk

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:26 pm

One of the reasons we're in this situation is because the Bucs didn't feel confident enough in their ability to gauge the ability of kickers in free agency, so they overpaid to make the problem go away. It was a terrible price to pay even if they were right, but the same inability to judge the quality of kicker was still there making the pick, just at a much higher cost.
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