Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

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Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Kress » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:33 pm

Are you seeing this? The rich get richer.... That is how you run a franchise. That is why I said to some person who I can't remember that you can't be myopic and focus only on instant gratification. It was a follow-up to an MJ W or Cheb quote about drafting a qb every year. Even I'd you don't use them, foresight pays off
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:36 pm

They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.

Plus they lost the 4th round pick they got from the Saints because of deflategate. They do get their original 4th back though but it's a loss of 16 spots.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:57 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.


That may be by design.

There HC/de facto GM is turning 65 this offseason and has already won 5 rings.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Teitan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:05 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.

Plus they lost the 4th round pick they got from the Saints because of deflategate. They do get their original 4th back though but it's a loss of 16 spots.



Could also say they gave those picks up for instant contributors.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Doctor » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:37 pm

Winning championships.


Also, look for the pats to trade down in the fourth given they can't use that pick anyways.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby FreeBaLLN5 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:23 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.

Plus they lost the 4th round pick they got from the Saints because of deflategate. They do get their original 4th back though but it's a loss of 16 spots.

The trade for Ealy they sent #32 in round 2 for Ealy and #8 in round 3. So they got Ealy by dropping 8 spots.

The trade for Cooks was fair value IMO.

EDIT: words
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Watchout4Bucs » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:22 pm

I think the Pats trade the 4th round pick they acquired. No way they leave half a round on the table if they don't have to.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby MJW » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:20 pm

FreeBaLLN5 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.

Plus they lost the 4th round pick they got from the Saints because of deflategate. They do get their original 4th back though but it's a loss of 16 spots.

The trade for Ealy they sent #32 in round 2 for Ealy and #8 in round 3. So they got Ealy by dropping 8 spots.

The trade for Cooks was fair value IMO.

EDIT: words


This basically. Though Bootz thinks that 2 years of controlling a 23 year old stud receiver (then getting a 3rd round comp pick back if he doesn't re-sign) isn't as good a deal as playing a scratchoff ticket on a 22 year old draft pick you might control for 4-5 years. This is an argument I'd listen to if we were talking about either a high pick (when the odds of the scratcher paying off are increased) OR a team like the 49ers or Browns which doesn't expect to compete in the next 2 years.

With the Patriots and their 32nd overall pick and their being poised to win another Superbowl, this honestly shouldn't even be a debate unless you happen to think less of Brandin Cooks than anyone else for some reason.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Selmon Rules » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:28 am

The Pats always zig when everyone else is zagging.... Everyone else seems to be collecting picks so they are in higher demand. When do you sell? When demand is high....

When the rest of the league catches up to what they are doing and tries to "sell" their draft picks, the hoodie will be buying them, trading off his older players and restocking shelves with younger ones on the cheap again....
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:50 am

The Pats still have 7 draft picks w/ two selections in both the 3rd and 5th rounds. The just don't pick until the early 3rd (Panthers 3rd).

The Belichick/Brady era is coming to a close, the guys getting drafted NOW won't be key parts of the team for 2-3 years at best when Brady will be 42-43yrs old. I'm not saying they are going ALL-IN and sacrificing their future, but it shouldn't be a surprise if they did look to maximize there current window.

They also need to upgrade the talent of the skill positions. I know they won the SB and the offense was putting up points, but they lost Bennett in FA and needed to add some speed to the WR corps. Cooks should be fun tool for Josh McDaniels.

They still have Garrapollo as a chip they can use to acquire a boatload of picks if they so choose. I'd be the Browns would trade one of there 1st + a day 2 pick to get him.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:52 am

FreeBaLLN5 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:They gave up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for short term rentals. We'll see what happens.

Plus they lost the 4th round pick they got from the Saints because of deflategate. They do get their original 4th back though but it's a loss of 16 spots.

The trade for Ealy they sent #32 in round 2 for Ealy and #8 in round 3. So they got Ealy by dropping 8 spots.

The trade for Cooks was fair value IMO.

EDIT: words


Dropping 8 spots to get a so far underwhelming player doesn't make it a good trade. Even if it is the Pats. Belichick is like I said so deep inside the head of every casual fan. He could send a 1st & 2nd for Brent Hundley people, people would still drool on themselves.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:02 am

MJW wrote:
FreeBaLLN5 wrote:The trade for Ealy they sent #32 in round 2 for Ealy and #8 in round 3. So they got Ealy by dropping 8 spots.

The trade for Cooks was fair value IMO.

EDIT: words


This basically. Though Bootz thinks that 2 years of controlling a 23 year old stud receiver (then getting a 3rd round comp pick back if he doesn't re-sign) isn't as good a deal as playing a scratchoff ticket on a 22 year old draft pick you might control for 4-5 years. This is an argument I'd listen to if we were talking about either a high pick (when the odds of the scratcher paying off are increased) OR a team like the 49ers or Browns which doesn't expect to compete in the next 2 years.

With the Patriots and their 32nd overall pick and their being poised to win another Superbowl, this honestly shouldn't even be a debate unless you happen to think less of Brandin Cooks than anyone else for some reason.


The hypocrisy of it all is you're one who doesn't believe in spending high draft picks on WRs. You've said forever QBs make the WRs. Now because it's Belichick send 2 high picks for a WR as a rental, it's a good move.

I could see this deal for Mike Evans, Odell Beckham. Maybe even Landry. Not Cooks. If he's a stud to you then the guys I mentioned above must be all time great in your eyes. You were just panicking and looking for the underlying answers as to why the Saints would want to trade a young talented player. In MJW language you blame the player for moving teams in short periods of time (Brandon Marshall, Darrelle Revis). Now this is a good move. Please. And now draft picks are just a "scratchoff" ticket in your eyes? Once again you show how much of a hypocrite you are. Although at this point you've been so wrong in your assessments of draftees over the years I'm sure you're now choosing to sit out the draft process and make an opinion 3-4 years after each draft. Because certainly you wouldn't call a "scratchoff ticket" a stud, right?
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:05 am

Selmon Rules wrote:The Pats always zig when everyone else is zagging.... Everyone else seems to be collecting picks so they are in higher demand. When do you sell? When demand is high....

When the rest of the league catches up to what they are doing and tries to "sell" their draft picks, the hoodie will be buying them, trading off his older players and restocking shelves with younger ones on the cheap again....


You couldn't be more wrong. You do realize that other than the Cooks trade, the Pats received draft picks in their trades for Ealy and Allen. Like Dread stated they still have 7 picks, albeit in late day 2 and day 3 picks which likely won't have much impact.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:15 am

They received a pick in the Cooks trade as well.

I also wouldn't give up a first for Cooks but if I planned on taking a WR in the first, I certainly would rather have him than the options that will be there at 32 (even if you consider Ross a possibility to fall there).

The Kony Ealy deal is clearly a win for the Patriots. Arguing otherwise is just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

I'm not a big fan of Dwayne Allen the receiver but he's a good blocking TE and his ceiling for targets should be something like sixth or seventh on the team. It's a typical Patriots deal where they're willing to move down in a draft but still come out with the same number of picks.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:26 am

Naismith wrote:They received a pick in the Cooks trade as well.

I also wouldn't give up a first for Cooks but if I planned on taking a WR in the first, I certainly would rather have him than the options that will be there at 32 (even if you consider Ross a possibility to fall there).

The Kony Ealy deal is clearly a win for the Patriots. Arguing otherwise is just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

I'm not a big fan of Dwayne Allen the receiver but he's a good blocking TE and his ceiling for targets should be something like sixth or seventh on the team. It's a typical Patriots deal where they're willing to move down in a draft but still come out with the same number of picks.


They got a pick for Cooks and promptly lost it due to their deflategate punishment. So it was a wash.

You've got to do better than that as far as Ealy is concerned. Going with the "contrarian" line is lazy and shows lack of knowledge on your part. Dont be a puppet. He's a 2nd round pick who was never able to get a starting job even as the Panthers moved on from Greg Hardy and nearly Charles Johnson. They received their original compensation back for a player who averages less than 5 sacks a season.

Allen is the type of player you pick up off the waiver wire. Not send draft picks for and continue to pay his $7mil+ APY salary.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Kress » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:33 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Belichick is like I said so deep inside the head of every casual fan..



This is true. He's never done anything to substantiate that. It's not like he built an NFL dynasty or anything. Nope.

So as a result, we should thus trust Bootz2004 over ****ing BILL BELLICHEK. After all, Bootz is a barber and hears **** while cutting hair, and thus has the wherewithal to remember and repost it on a Bucs message board.

All in favor? Bootz 2020!
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:36 am

Kress wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Belichick is like I said so deep inside the head of every casual fan..



This is true. He's never done anything to substantiate that. It's not like he built an NFL dynasty or anything. Nope.

So as a result, we should thus trust Bootz2004 over ****ing BILL BELLICHEK. After all, he is barber and hears **** while cutting hair, and thus has the wherewithal to remember and repost it on a Bucs message board.

All in favor? Bootz 2020!


Minor meltdown there, Kress. This has nothing to do with 5 championships. And that's my point. That's all you're smart enough to focus on. Like I said he could do literally anything and you'd be on your knees because all you see is 5 rings.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Kress » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:11 am

Bootz2004 wrote:This has nothing to do with 5 championships. And that's my point.



You are correct. 5 championships would suck balls. I concede. Carry on with your wisdom. I look forward to receiving it and achieving football enlightenment.



:cartman:
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:39 am

Bootz2004 wrote:They got a pick for Cooks and promptly lost it due to their deflategate punishment. So it was a wash.

You've got to do better than that as far as Ealy is concerned. Going with the "contrarian" line is lazy and shows lack of knowledge on your part. Dont be a puppet. He's a 2nd round pick who was never able to get a starting job even as the Panthers moved on from Greg Hardy and nearly Charles Johnson. They received their original compensation back for a player who averages less than 5 sacks a season.


They had to lose a pick in deflategate regardless. If they didn't get a fourth rounder back from the Saints, they would lose a different fourth rounder. Before the deal they had zero picks in the fourth round. Now they have one. I think you'd agree that one fourth rounder is more than zero and that's what they acquired in the trade for Cooks.

You are 100% just being contrarian with your Ealy take or you don't understand draft boards, compensatory picks, etc. I'm confident you do understand those, things, though. It's very possible and even likely that there's a zero value difference between picks 64 and 72 to a team two months ahead of the draft. To know that it's a bad deal, you would have to know that the Patriots have a significant grading cutoff where they can get a player at 64 that might not be there at 72. But even then, that doesn't take into consideration the added value of bringing in a player on the last year of a cheap rookie deal.

If we assume Ealy gets 5-ish sacks this year like he has each year, what's the going free agency rate for a 26-year old that averages five sacks per season? Very conservatively, it's enough to merit a seventh round compensatory pick, correct? So now the Patriots have traded pick 64 for 72 and a 2019 7th rounder plus one year of Ealy at a cost of 900k for the season. They have also acquired a player without him counting against their ability to collect comp picks for this year. As of today, the Patriots have acquired two free agents and lost four (overthecap projects them to net a 2018 4th and 5th) even though they've actually acquired five players. So they've added players and added picks for next year by being smart with how they've acquired the players. By replacing Chris Long with Kony Ealy rather than bringing Long back or having to sign a free agent or use a pick to replace him, they will also acquire an additional 2018 compensatory pick when Long signs with a team. They will acquire an additional 2019 compensatory pick when Ealy signs with someone else, while also maintaining the ability to exclusively negotiate with Ealy should they desire to keep him beyond next year.

So at the cost of moving down eight spots, they get a very cheap player this year, an additional compensatory pick in 2018 and an additional compensatory pick in 2019.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:53 am

Naismith wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:They got a pick for Cooks and promptly lost it due to their deflategate punishment. So it was a wash.

You've got to do better than that as far as Ealy is concerned. Going with the "contrarian" line is lazy and shows lack of knowledge on your part. Dont be a puppet. He's a 2nd round pick who was never able to get a starting job even as the Panthers moved on from Greg Hardy and nearly Charles Johnson. They received their original compensation back for a player who averages less than 5 sacks a season.


They had to lose a pick in deflategate regardless. If they didn't get a fourth rounder back from the Saints, they would lose a different fourth rounder. Before the deal they had zero picks in the fourth round. Now they have one. I think you'd agree that one fourth rounder is more than zero and that's what they acquired in the trade for Cooks.

You are 100% just being contrarian with your Ealy take or you don't understand draft boards, compensatory picks, etc. I'm confident you do understand those, things, though. It's very possible and even likely that there's a zero value difference between picks 64 and 72 to a team two months ahead of the draft. To know that it's a bad deal, you would have to know that the Patriots have a significant grading cutoff where they can get a player at 64 that might not be there at 72. But even then, that doesn't take into consideration the added value of bringing in a player on the last year of a cheap rookie deal.

If we assume Ealy gets 5-ish sacks this year like he has each year, what's the going free agency rate for a 26-year old that averages five sacks per season? Very conservatively, it's enough to merit a seventh round compensatory pick, correct? So now the Patriots have traded pick 64 for 72 and a 2019 7th rounder plus one year of Ealy at a cost of 900k for the season. They have also acquired a player without him counting against their ability to collect comp picks for this year. As of today, the Patriots have acquired two free agents and lost four (overthecap projects them to net a 2018 4th and 5th) even though they've actually acquired five players. So they've added players and added picks for next year by being smart with how they've acquired the players. By replacing Chris Long with Kony Ealy rather than bringing Long back or having to sign a free agent or use a pick to replace him, they will also acquire an additional 2018 compensatory pick when Long signs with a team. They will acquire an additional 2019 compensatory pick when Ealy signs with someone else, while also maintaining the ability to exclusively negotiate with Ealy should they desire to keep him beyond next year.

So at the cost of moving down eight spots, they get a very cheap player this year, an additional compensatory pick in 2018 and an additional compensatory pick in 2019.


You said absolutely nothing here that makes sense. Nothing.
You're lying to yourself if you think you understand how compensatory picks are rewarded or the formula. No one does because there is no exact formula. One can assume but in reality their just talking out of their ass. If your answer is "over the cap says" then you're an even bigger fool than you've shown yourself to be here. Instead of keeping their 2nd, you're saying it's a good idea that they sent it to get Ealy because they can potentially get a 7th round compensatory pick. Yea that makes a ton of sense. A potential 7th round comp pick is better than a guaranteed 2nd.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:04 am

Sorry if you don't understand all of that but it's definitely correct and any argument against what I said is just foolishness. You don't need to understand the compensatory picks on an exact level to understand that more outgoing free agents than incoming free agents.

For a very basic explanation, the Patriots have a fifth round compensatory pick this year for losing Akiem Hicks and Tavon Wilson but only acquiring Shea McClellan. However they actually acquired two players, McClellan and Martellus Bennett, which would have eliminated the 2017 5th rounder if Bennett was a free agent rather than a trade. So by trading a 2016 fourth rounder for Bennett and a 2016 sixth rounder, they also acquired a 2017 fifth rounder and a 2018 compensatory pick for letting Bennett walk in free agency.

So, yeah, this is what the smart teams do to game the system and why the Patriots are the smartest team.
Last edited by Naismith on Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:10 am

Naismith wrote:Sorry if you don't understand all of that but it's definitely correct and any argument against what I said is just foolishness. You don't need to understand the compensatory picks on an exact level to understand that more outgoing free agents than incoming free agents.

For a very basic explanation, the Patriots have a fifth round compensatory pick this year for losing Akiem Hicks and Tavon Austin but only acquiring Shea McClellan. However they actually acquired two players, McClellan and Martellus Bennett, which would have eliminated the 2017 5th rounder if Bennett was a free agent rather than a trade. So by trading a 2016 fourth rounder for Bennett and a 2016 sixth rounder, they also acquired a 2017 fifth rounder and a 2018 compensatory pick for letting Bennett walk in free agency.

So, yeah, this is what the smart teams do to game the system and why the Patriots are the smartest team.


This is such bullshit. Comp picks aren't awarded a year ahead of time. Tavon Austin also NEVER played for the Patriots. Still with the Rams, who drafted him. You're completely embarrassing yourself with these lies.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:15 am

Corrected it. Tavon Wilson. Typed Austin out of habit.

No one said they were awarded ahead of time. Doesn't mean a team can't plan their offseason in a way to maximize compensatory value.

You're either trolling, as you unfortunately do so often, or are choosing to remain ignorant on the subject matter. Regardless, you can understand the concept or not, doesn't matter to me. There's nothing wrong with following transactions on a casual level if that's your preference.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:23 am

Naismith wrote:Corrected it. Tavon Wilson. Typed Austin out of habit.

No one said they were awarded ahead of time. Doesn't mean a team can't plan their offseason in a way to maximize compensatory value.

You're either trolling, as you unfortunately do so often, or are choosing to remain ignorant on the subject matter. Regardless, you can understand the concept or not, doesn't matter to me. There's nothing wrong with following transactions on a casual level if that's your preference.


You didn't take Chris Hogan or Clay Harbor into consideration either. Furthermore proving your stance to be nothing more than speculation. You know how to go to Overthecap.com nothing more.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:51 am

Chris Hogan was a RFA so he doesn't count towards compensatory picks and Harbor was released before week ten, so he doesn't either. I appreciate you trying here but it's not going to work out for you.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby threadkiller » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:55 am

Mods: Please label this thread NSFW. I could get fired opening up a snuff clip like this.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Naismith wrote:Chris Hogan was a RFA so he doesn't count towards compensatory picks and Harbor was released before week ten, so he doesn't either. I appreciate you trying here but it's not going to work out for you.


Fiction. As the rules state, The placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. There's nothing stating that RFAs don't count. If there is, show me. Should be easy.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:09 pm

I guarantee that Cooks has a way better career than whoever the Saints draft at 32.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:12 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:I guarantee that Cooks has a way better career than whoever the Saints draft at 32.


If that's the logic, we're in trouble and so is every NFL team. You're saying whoever is taken after 32 will be no better than Cooks in their career. Well, way better. So every pick after 32 will bust.
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Re: Dafuq are the Patriots doing?

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:13 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:I guarantee that Cooks has a way better career than whoever the Saints draft at 32.


If that's the logic, we're in trouble and so is every NFL team. You're saying whoever is taken after 32 will be no better than Cooks in their career. Well, way better. So every pick after 32 will bust.


I never said that at all.
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