Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 pm

Buczone seems to be the only ones under the impression that he was phoning it in last year, which imo, is just a lazy way of looking at it. By all other accounts from OBP the guy was still hard at it. His issue was a mix of force feeding Evans and being used incorrectly. I remember at least two INTs where Vincent should have been targetted, instead Winston forced it to Evans.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Teitan » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:19 pm

Doctor wrote:Buczone seems to be the only ones under the impression that he was phoning it in last year, which imo, is just a lazy way of looking at it. By all other accounts from OBP the guy was still hard at it. His issue was a mix of force feeding Evans and being used incorrectly. I remember at least two INTs where Vincent should have been targetted, instead Winston forced it to Evans.


Do you think the coaches and front office were gonna go to a press conference and say he's phoning it in? His issues were a combination of things. But if you don't think he was quitting on routes and giving minimal effort last season.. you need to go back and re-watch.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:24 pm

I think Vincent's body quit on him more than anything...
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:27 pm

Teitan wrote:
Doctor wrote:Buczone seems to be the only ones under the impression that he was phoning it in last year, which imo, is just a lazy way of looking at it. By all other accounts from OBP the guy was still hard at it. His issue was a mix of force feeding Evans and being used incorrectly. I remember at least two INTs where Vincent should have been targetted, instead Winston forced it to Evans.


Do you think the coaches and front office were gonna go to a press conference and say he's phoning it in? His issues were a combination of things. But if you don't think he was quitting on routes and giving minimal effort last season.. you need to go back and re-watch.

Yes, because this staff doesn't call people out....
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby MJW » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:47 am

Entering Day Five Of Free Agency, my current list:

1) Jay Cutler, QB, Chicago
2 Years, $12 mil sounds right, or maybe 2/10 with incentives if he actually plays. I know everyone hates him, but he's won a lot of games in this league and we wouldn't have to do anything different in our scheme. As much as the butthurt stings some, he has a huge arm and he doesn't always make good decisions with it, just like the starter. He's nothing like the starter in terms of his personality, but as the designated backup nobody would give a crap.

2) Brandon Carr or Mo Claiborne, CB, Dallas
One was solid but overpaid and never lived it down, another was overdrafted but turned into a solid player towards the end of his rookie contract. Both would give us a veteran 3rd corner, freeing pressure on the pups, and Josh Robinson to play specials, and OBP not to draft a corner if they don't love one.

3) Will Compton, LB, Washington
Husker Homer. He'd look good on the strongside. Not a great athlete but he's smart and he can hit at the POA. He's better than Darryl Smith, and like 8 years younger, too.

4) Ryan Clady, OT, Jets
Competition for Donovan Smith...Competition for Demar Dotson...or a swing tackle with well over 100 career starts. At the right price, he'd look good on the 53 on a one-year deal.

5) Nick Mangold, C, Jets
Let's just add nothing but old Jets! Is Kevin Mawae still alive? Anyway, Mangold is better than Joe Hawley and he's an actual veteran presence who's been there, something I'd humbly suggest our line doesn't really have.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby threadkiller » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:20 am

Doctor wrote:Buczone seems to be the only ones under the impression that he was phoning it in last year, which imo, is just a lazy way of looking at it. By all other accounts from OBP the guy was still hard at it. His issue was a mix of force feeding Evans and being used incorrectly. I remember at least two INTs where Vincent should have been targetted, instead Winston forced it to Evans.


This is part of the reason I believe his body is done. It wasn't just last season, he struggled mightily to stay on the field physically in 2015 as well. We always heard Vince was very professional about keeping his body at peak condition in the off seasons. I don't think he gave up as much as his body gave up on him.

I agree with the premise that has you bringing up signing Vince, which is why I'd like to see us draft a WR and give Boldin a 1 year deal. Vince's game isn't really equipped for a loss of his athleticism. Anquan always relied more on his physicality and body positioning to transition into a diminished physical specimen, and he's been able to stay productive and on the field through that process. Vince was never a receiver who was strong blocking out defenders and making tough catches in heavy traffic, but that is what he would have to do now to be effective. The stuff we would use Vince for as a 3/4 are things Boldin still showed he could do well last season (be a physical/reliable small window target for 3rd down and redzone).
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:16 am

Center Nick Mangold - He's 33yrs old, but could be a Logan Mankins type of signing. Mangold missed 8 games last season but had been an NFL iron man up until that point. If his health checks out than I'd be fine bringing him in to bridge the Center position and solidify the interior O-line. Mangold + Marpet + Sweezy/Pamphile w/ Dotson and and Dovovan Smith as the bookends.

LB Jelani Jenkins - Still a very young player at 25yrs old who played for Bucs LB coach Mark Duffner from '14-'15 w/ the Fins. Jenkins is an athletic LB that could start at SLB here and could be solid insurance as a Nickel LB if any injuries to Kwon or LVD happen.

WR Andre Holmes - He's be an upgrade from Shepard at WR depth but not quite the ST player, although still solid in that area.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:12 pm

The thing I'm most curious to see play out hopefully this week is the center position. I'd prefer to re-sign Hawley than get a washed up crawling to finish line Mangold, but I for sure don't want Evan Smith starting (preferably he's cut after we sign someone). I think anything else done is straight up depth. Which we need a lot of anyways so I'm not against the Bucs being active with some of the cheaper players on the market.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby MJW » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:16 am

Phun Phact:

Your starting defense, if you built a team with guys who are still available -

LE - Jonathan Hankins
NT - Dontari Poe
RE - Jared Odrick

LOLB - Elvis Dumervil
LILB - Lawrence Timmons
RILB - Dont'a Hightower
ROLB - Connor Barwin

CB - Brandon Carr
CB - Sam Shields
S - Jairus Byrd
S - Aaron Williams

Top Reserves:
DE Tyson Jackson
NT Vince Wilfork
OLB Jarvis Jones
ILB Sean Spence
CB Nickel Robey
CB LaDarius Webb
S - Bradley McDougland

I'm not saying it's the '85 Bears or anything but it would be a competitive squad.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:31 am

I think we are mostly done in FA. Once things shake out a bit more we can add a vet QB, a vet LB, a longsnapper, and possibly a vet CB, but for the most part I think we're moving on to the draft. as of now, roster looks like

QB: Jameis Winston. Ryan Griffen.
RB: Charles Sims. Jacquizz Rodgers. Peyton Barber.
WR: Mike Evans. Desean Jackson. Adam Humpries.
TE: Cameron Brate. Luke Stocker. Alan Cross.
OT: Donovan Smith. Demar Dotson. Leonard Wester. Caleb Benenoch.
IOL: JR Sweezy. Ali Marpet. Joe Hawley. Kevin Pamphile. Evan Smith

DT: Gerald McCoy. Chris Baket. Clinton McDonald. Sealver Siliga
DE: Robert Ayers. William Gholston. Noah Spence. Jaq Smith.
LB: Kwon Alexander. Lavonte David. Adarius Glanton. Devonte Bond
CB: Brent Grimes. Vernon Hargreaves. Ryan Smith. Josh Robinson.
NB: Jude Adjei-Barimeh. Javien Elliott.
S: Keith Tandy. JJ Wilcox. Chris Conte

LS: Garrison Sanborn
K: Roberto Aguayo
P: Bryan Anger
Last edited by real bucs fan on Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:19 am

MJW wrote:Phun Phact:

Your starting defense, if you built a team with guys who are still available -

LE - Jonathan Hankins
NT - Dontari Poe
RE - Jared Odrick

LOLB - Elvis Dumervil
LILB - Lawrence Timmons
RILB - Dont'a Hightower
ROLB - Connor Barwin

CB - Brandon Carr
CB - Sam Shields
S - Jairus Byrd
S - Aaron Williams

Top Reserves:
DE Tyson Jackson
NT Vince Wilfork
OLB Jarvis Jones
ILB Sean Spence
CB Nickel Robey
CB LaDarius Webb
S - Bradley McDougland

I'm not saying it's the '85 Bears or anything but it would be a competitive squad.


Timmons signed Miami last week.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:23 am

Lawrence Timmons has signed w/ the Dolphins already

Doug Martin is still on the Bucs roster. There is no reason release him at this time. His suspension voided ALL guaranteed money that was due in 2017 and now his $7m 2017 salary is in the form of a base salary, which is split into 17 games checks (roughly $412k per game). Since he his suspended the first 3 games due to his PED suspension he already has to forfeit about $1.25m.

Martin will start the season on the PUP/Suspended list and not count against the 53 man roster.

After the 3rd game of the season the Bucs must make a decision to promote Martin to the 53 man roster and start paying him the prorated 2017 base salary, or release him from his contract with no penalty.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:31 am

DreadNaught wrote:Lawrence Timmons has signed w/ the Dolphins already

Doug Martin is still on the Bucs roster. There is no reason release him at this time. His suspension voided ALL guaranteed money that was due in 2017 and now his $7m 2017 salary is in the form of a base salary, which is split into 17 games checks (roughly $412k per game). Since he his suspended the first 3 games due to his PED suspension he already has to forfeit about $1.25m.

Martin will start the season on the PUP/Suspended list and not count against the 53 man roster.

After the 3rd game of the season the Bucs must make a decision to promote Martin to the 53 man roster and start paying him the prorated 2017 base salary, or release him from his contract with no penalty.


If he's on the team when the season starts then we probably intend to keep him. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where we keep him then let him go after the 3rd game.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:46 am

Ya, I don't think that would make us very popular among players. That would be doing him dirty. I fully expect us to draft a RB early and release Martin before the season though.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:18 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Lawrence Timmons has signed w/ the Dolphins already

Doug Martin is still on the Bucs roster. There is no reason release him at this time. His suspension voided ALL guaranteed money that was due in 2017 and now his $7m 2017 salary is in the form of a base salary, which is split into 17 games checks (roughly $412k per game). Since he his suspended the first 3 games due to his PED suspension he already has to forfeit about $1.25m.

Martin will start the season on the PUP/Suspended list and not count against the 53 man roster.

After the 3rd game of the season the Bucs must make a decision to promote Martin to the 53 man roster and start paying him the prorated 2017 base salary, or release him from his contract with no penalty.


If he's on the team when the season starts then we probably intend to keep him. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where we keep him then let him go after the 3rd game.

Only way I see something like that happening is if we drafted a guy like say Hunt or Perine in the 4th round, intending to have Sims/Quizz be the lead backs going into the season. The rookie does so well he earns early down work. He has Jordan Howard like three games, shows he can and should be the lead back. With Sims and Quizz to back up and fill the other roles, we end up releasing Martin.

Or same situation but a guy like Peyton Barber steps up and has an Earnest Graham like preseason, earns the starting spot, shine his first three weeks and lets us move on from Martin and his $7M salary.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 am

Jarius Byrd looked like a rising star in Buffalo but ended up being a huge bust for the Saints. Like I've said, beggers can't be choosers and we've got nothing at safety right now. I wouldn't be against just throwing a bunch of guys at the spot and letting the winner take it.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Buc2 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

real bucs fan wrote:I think we are mostly done in FA. Once things shake out a bit more we can add a vet QB, a vet LB, a longsnapper, and possibly a vet CB, but for the most part I think we're moving on to the draft. as of now, roster looks like

QB: Jameis Winston. Ryan Griffen.
RB: Jacquizz Rodgers, Charles Sims. Peyton Barber. {fixed}
WR: Mike Evans. Desean Jackson. Adam Humpries.
TE: Cameron Brate. Luke Stocker. Alan Cross.
OT: Donovan Smith. Demar Dotson. Leonard Wester. Caleb Benenoch.
IOL: JR Sweezy. Ali Marpet. Kevin Pamphile.

DT: Gerald McCoy. Chris Baket. Clinton McDonald. Sealver Siliga
DE: Robert Ayers. William Gholston. Noah Spence. Jaq Smith.
LB: Kwon Alexander. Lavonte David. Adarius Glanton. Devonte Bond
CB: Brent Grimes. Vernon Hargreaves. Ryan Smith. Josh Robinson.
NB: Jude Adjei-Barimeh. Javien Elliott.
S: Keith Tandy. JJ Wilcox. Chris Conte

LS: ????
K: Roberto Aguayo
P: Bryan Anger
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:56 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Lawrence Timmons has signed w/ the Dolphins already

Doug Martin is still on the Bucs roster. There is no reason release him at this time. His suspension voided ALL guaranteed money that was due in 2017 and now his $7m 2017 salary is in the form of a base salary, which is split into 17 games checks (roughly $412k per game). Since he his suspended the first 3 games due to his PED suspension he already has to forfeit about $1.25m.

Martin will start the season on the PUP/Suspended list and not count against the 53 man roster.

After the 3rd game of the season the Bucs must make a decision to promote Martin to the 53 man roster and start paying him the prorated 2017 base salary, or release him from his contract with no penalty.


If he's on the team when the season starts then we probably intend to keep him. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where we keep him then let him go after the 3rd game.


I don't disagree with that. Just saying the team is not pressed to make a decision anytime soon on Martin, and certainly not until the dust settles with the draft and post draft FA where some of the veteran RBs may still be available.

Cutting him after week 3 certainly would be a bad look. If we cut Martin I think it would be b/c drafted one somewhat early and he'd be released in time to catch on w/ a different team prior to TC.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby MJW » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:Phun Phact:

Your starting defense, if you built a team with guys who are still available -

LE - Jonathan Hankins
NT - Dontari Poe
RE - Jared Odrick

LOLB - Elvis Dumervil
LILB - Lawrence Timmons
RILB - Dont'a Hightower
ROLB - Connor Barwin

CB - Brandon Carr
CB - Sam Shields
S - Jairus Byrd
S - Aaron Williams

Top Reserves:
DE Tyson Jackson
NT Vince Wilfork
OLB Jarvis Jones
ILB Sean Spence
CB Nickel Robey
CB LaDarius Webb
S - Bradley McDougland

I'm not saying it's the '85 Bears or anything but it would be a competitive squad.


Timmons signed Miami last week.


Missed it.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:16 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Lawrence Timmons has signed w/ the Dolphins already

Doug Martin is still on the Bucs roster. There is no reason release him at this time. His suspension voided ALL guaranteed money that was due in 2017 and now his $7m 2017 salary is in the form of a base salary, which is split into 17 games checks (roughly $412k per game). Since he his suspended the first 3 games due to his PED suspension he already has to forfeit about $1.25m.

Martin will start the season on the PUP/Suspended list and not count against the 53 man roster.

After the 3rd game of the season the Bucs must make a decision to promote Martin to the 53 man roster and start paying him the prorated 2017 base salary, or release him from his contract with no penalty.


If he's on the team when the season starts then we probably intend to keep him. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where we keep him then let him go after the 3rd game.

real bucs fan wrote:Ya, I don't think that would make us very popular among players. That would be doing him dirty. I fully expect us to draft a RB early and release Martin before the season though.


Agreed. This isn't the Culverhouse Bucs, we have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. We will find out if we are keeping Martin the day after the draft. If we draft a guy, Martin is gone. If not, he stays.

Of course, this is assuming we don't sign one of the remaining FA RB's that are out there. I don't see that as a thing, but I didn't see Quizz having that kind of impact either. Maybe One Buc sees another unheralded guy that think can get it done.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:09 pm

real bucs fan wrote:I think we are mostly done in FA. Once things shake out a bit more we can add a vet QB, a vet LB, a longsnapper, and possibly a vet CB, but for the most part I think we're moving on to the draft. as of now, roster looks like

QB: Jameis Winston. Ryan Griffen.
RB: Charles Sims. Jacquizz Rodgers. Peyton Barber.
WR: Mike Evans. Desean Jackson. Adam Humpries.
TE: Cameron Brate. Luke Stocker. Alan Cross.
OT: Donovan Smith. Demar Dotson. Leonard Wester. Caleb Benenoch.
IOL: JR Sweezy. Ali Marpet. Joe Hawley. Kevin Pamphile. Evan Smith

DT: Gerald McCoy. Chris Baket. Clinton McDonald. Sealver Siliga
DE: Robert Ayers. William Gholston. Noah Spence. Jaq Smith.
LB: Kwon Alexander. Lavonte David. Adarius Glanton. Devonte Bond
CB: Brent Grimes. Vernon Hargreaves. Ryan Smith. Josh Robinson.
NB: Jude Adjei-Barimeh. Javien Elliott.
S: Keith Tandy. JJ Wilcox. Chris Conte

LS: Garrison Sanborn
K: Roberto Aguayo
P: Bryan Anger

Updated with Sanborn and Hawley.

I think we still need a vet LB to compete for the SLB job, and a vet CB to backup Grimes and VHIII outside. After that I think we are done with FA in regards to guys who'll push to make the 53. Perhaps another WR to compete with the Huffs, Reedys, and Martinos.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:24 pm

Andre Holmes is intriguing. I'm not sure he'd be interested in coming here, though. He'd be our #3 at best.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby MJW » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:09 am

It may be time for Jonathan Hankins to ease back from his $10 Mil APY demands.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Doctor » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:07 am

I can't believe we aren't sniffing around tackles. They must have a lot of faith in Benenoch. Dotson has been, imo, under performing for his ability but not nearly as badly as some here make it seem. And Cherilus has (thankfully) retired. Depth? Competition? There's a long list of veterans floating out there. Maybe they'll address it more after the draft?
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Caradoc » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:25 pm

I am more comfortable with our OL than probably anyone on any of the Buc Boards. And the team seems a lot more comfortable with them than even I am.

Mangold leaving exposed Hawley. Hawley isn't the guy that helps the people next to him, he's the guy that needs help from the people next to him. I think his contract reflects the team is aware of that, but not sure if they can fix it this year.

Going into this season we will probably be look ing at 2 likely scenarios.
1) Smith-Sweezy-Hawley-Marpet-Dotson
2) Smith-Sweezy-Marpet-Pamphile/other-Dotson

IMO the ideal (but unlikely) scenario starts with Smith-Sweezy-Marpet- And then ends with either the young guys seizing those two spots on the right or a draftee ending up there.

Another unlikely but "much better than standing pat" scenario is we draft a center and then someone beats out Dotson.

I am higher on Smith than this board. He is very young and still developing and will be a serviceable at least LT for a long time IMO. OTOH, I am much more worried about Dotson than people here. I don't like that he had a bad season after 1) injury, and 2) getting paid. Maybe this year was a temporary setback, but either/both of those things could also indicate a long term decline, especially as he is getting up there (he'll be 32 in early October).
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Nano » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:54 pm

Mankins, not Mangold
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:59 pm

Hawley sucks.

I love reading/hearing people defend him. The explanation never includes anything that happens during a football play.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby Phantom Phenom » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:17 pm

Doctor wrote:I can't believe we aren't sniffing around tackles. They must have a lot of faith in Benenoch. Dotson has been, imo, under performing for his ability but not nearly as badly as some here make it seem. And Cherilus has (thankfully) retired. Depth? Competition? There's a long list of veterans floating out there. Maybe they'll address it more after the draft?



No ****, hopefully Bucs draft good OL
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:04 am

DreadNaught wrote:Hawley sucks.

I love reading/hearing people defend him. The explanation never includes anything that happens during a football play.


Any time you find yourself using phrases like, "toughness" or "coach on the field," you've lost the argument that a guy should be on your roster.
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Re: Best of the Rest: Your remaining FA Wishlist

Postby deltbucs » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:11 pm

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Hawley sucks.

I love reading/hearing people defend him. The explanation never includes anything that happens during a football play.


Any time you find yourself using phrases like, "toughness" or "coach on the field," you've lost the argument that a guy should be on your roster.

lolwut?
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