The 25 Card Question

Team Discussions regarding games, players, coaches, or anything else related to Buccaneer Football.
post

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:38 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Buc You wrote:Bingo. Nailed it.

"You go Joe" and his acrobatics in Philadelphia the next season have cemented his status as a Buc Legend.



Brate and Hump have already passed Jumpin Joe...


I understand your point MDB, but as you usually do, you left it too opaque. In short, can you really include a receiver who caught fewer passes in pewter than the JAG tight end who became a starter week four this year? I can't. Not in a top 25.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:23 am

MJW wrote:We're redoing our son's room and I bought him a sweet 25 slot football card display.

You know what I'm going to ask.

Here's how I have it right now -

The Current Guys Shelf:
1) Jameis
2) Evans
3) David
4) McCoy
5) Martin (with Ali Marpet as the designated alternate if the axe falls)

The No Doubters:
6) Selmon
7) Sapp
8) Brooks
9) Lynch
10) Barber
11) Wilder
12) Alstott
13) Gruber
14) Giles
15) Simeon
16) Nickerson
17) Doug Williams

My Final Eight
18) Warrick Dunn
19) The Bull
20) Ricky Bell
21) Tony Mayberry
22) Batman Wood
23) Dave Logan
24) Randy Grimes
25) Shelton Quarles

This is really a question for the older Bucs fans. Am I leaving out any old timers who are better than the guys at the bottom of the list? Some of the others I considered:
Mike Washington
Ricky Reynolds
Dewey Selmon
Cecil Johnson
Dave Moore
Scot Brantley
Brian Kelly
Cedric Brown
Mark Cotney
Mark Carrier
John Cannon

Should I move anyone in or out?


In - Kevn House
Out - Joe J
mdb1958
 
Posts: 5852
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:37 am

mdb1958 wrote:
MJW wrote:We're redoing our son's room and I bought him a sweet 25 slot football card display.

You know what I'm going to ask.

Here's how I have it right now -

The Current Guys Shelf:
1) Jameis
2) Evans
3) David
4) McCoy
5) Martin (with Ali Marpet as the designated alternate if the axe falls)

The No Doubters:
6) Selmon
7) Sapp
8) Brooks
9) Lynch
10) Barber
11) Wilder
12) Alstott
13) Gruber
14) Giles
15) Simeon
16) Nickerson
17) Doug Williams

My Final Eight
18) Warrick Dunn
19) The Bull
20) Ricky Bell
21) Tony Mayberry
22) Batman Wood
23) Dave Logan
24) Randy Grimes
25) Shelton Quarles

This is really a question for the older Bucs fans. Am I leaving out any old timers who are better than the guys at the bottom of the list? Some of the others I considered:
Mike Washington
Ricky Reynolds
Dewey Selmon
Cecil Johnson
Dave Moore
Scot Brantley
Brian Kelly
Cedric Brown
Mark Cotney
Mark Carrier
John Cannon

Should I move anyone in or out?


In - Kevn House
Out - Joe J


I slept on Kevin House. It's my bad. I would have to give him the nod over Carrier. I was still young when House was here, but looking at his numbers, he must have been one of the most dangerous receivers in the league. He averaged a TD about every 8 catches and put up 17 yards a pop. I don't think many great receiver today manage that.

House can go in, but who should be out? It would have to be Quarles but I'm not happy about that.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:11 am

Load your son up with the Buc history and let him decide.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 5852
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:32 am

mdb1958 wrote:Load your son up with the Buc history and let him decide.


My friend, I think that is your best post ever.

I really haven't touched on anything with him before 2002 besides the obvious horror stories:
- Doug and LRS were awesome.
- Ricky Bell died too young, though we still should have drafted Tony Dorsett.
- Bo had a point but I still hate him.
- We traded Steve Young for Vinny Testerverde, basically.
- Hugh Culverhouse was the devil.
- Shaun King was good but then he got fat.
- We got screwed by the refs in '99.
- The period between the early 80s and the late 90s was basically a toxic wasteland.
- Respect and love always for Tony Dungy.

The important stuff. But there's more I could be doing.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 am

I believe Hugh Green made 1st team all-pro back to back seasons, 3 pro bowls total. He is better than Quarles.
Brazen331
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:25 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby NYBF » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:55 am

MJW wrote:I'll address every point, but RE: Joe J, I can't do it. His story, and his two huge moments during that run, are the stuff of legend, but we're still talking about a guy who has half as many career catches for the Bucs as Jacquez Green. I can't put him in the 25 over guys who played ten years for us, which is what I'd have to do.

Gramatica would be a novelty, but does he belong on this list? No.


You're probably correct on You Go Joe! He's not a Top 25. But to me his heart, those big plays, everything he went through, plus what he did to Philly... to bring up Humphries and Brate is an insult.
Image
User avatar
NYBF
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:46 am
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 262 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Kress » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:34 am

MJW wrote:Gramatica would be a novelty, but does he belong on this list? No.



Dead to me.

How many times would the Bucs be down by a point or two, and you would see Gramatica lining up for a 40+ yarder at the end and think "game over."

Automatica. Check please! Tip your waitress, see you next Sunday.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:19 pm

Brate has already scored more TD's than 9 of our top 25 all time receivers and he still has a locker (so check yourself). My point was, I hope anybody we have had for only 3 years wouldnt make our top 25.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 5852
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby MJW » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:19 am

Kress wrote:
MJW wrote:Gramatica would be a novelty, but does he belong on this list? No.



Dead to me.

How many times would the Bucs be down by a point or two, and you would see Gramatica lining up for a 40+ yarder at the end and think "game over."

Automatica. Check please! Tip your waitress, see you next Sunday.


Though as always I respect your point, Kress...it wasn't so. Advanced metrics are probably kinder to him, but ultimately he never topped 84.4% as our kicker, and that was his rookie year, and he got progressively worse before getting cut in the midst of an 11 for 19 season. His career % is worse here than guys like Todd France and Rian Lindell, and Connor Barth looks like Morten Anderson by comparison.

It is fair to say he was the best kicker in our history. It is also fair to say my 5'7 husband is the best basketball player in our family. I would not enshrine either man.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:28 pm

MJW wrote:
Kress wrote:

Dead to me.

How many times would the Bucs be down by a point or two, and you would see Gramatica lining up for a 40+ yarder at the end and think "game over."

Automatica. Check please! Tip your waitress, see you next Sunday.


Though as always I respect your point, Kress...it wasn't so. Advanced metrics are probably kinder to him, but ultimately he never topped 84.4% as our kicker, and that was his rookie year, and he got progressively worse before getting cut in the midst of an 11 for 19 season. His career % is worse here than guys like Todd France and Rian Lindell, and Connor Barth looks like Morten Anderson by comparison.

It is fair to say he was the best kicker in our history. It is also fair to say my 5'7 husband is the best basketball player in our family. I would not enshrine either man.


lol
User avatar
beardmcdoug
 
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:30 pm
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Kress » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:28 am

MJW wrote:
Kress wrote:

Dead to me.

How many times would the Bucs be down by a point or two, and you would see Gramatica lining up for a 40+ yarder at the end and think "game over."

Automatica. Check please! Tip your waitress, see you next Sunday.


Though as always I respect your point, Kress...it wasn't so. Advanced metrics are probably kinder to him, but ultimately he never topped 84.4% as our kicker, and that was his rookie year, and he got progressively worse before getting cut in the midst of an 11 for 19 season. His career % is worse here than guys like Todd France and Rian Lindell, and Connor Barth looks like Morten Anderson by comparison.

It is fair to say he was the best kicker in our history. It is also fair to say my 5'7 husband is the best basketball player in our family. I would not enshrine either man.



My point took place at the end of games. I was probably drunk at the time.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Kress » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:31 am

I would also totally dunk all over your husband.

Well, I would if I could dunk, which I can't, but safe to say that we'll never play one another so I'm going with it.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:10 pm

the kicking position by definition is defined by single, big moments (see Norwood and Vinatieri). The missed kick in Green Bay on Christmas Eve, costing us a division title and first round bye and basically being the beginning of the end of Dungy in Tampa is a big mark against his legacy as a Buc.
KiffininCanton
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 8:34 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:30 pm

Don't think you can leave Keyshawn out.

Understand he's a bad guy, but so was Sapp.

I know the argument for Sapp is that he was so good he is impossible to leave out, but Keyshawn was pretty important to this franchise as well. Best offensive weapon on our Super Bowl team (outside of Brad) and I can't imagine how putrid our offense would of been in 00 and 01 without him. You could argue our Super Bowl title and two other playoff appearances don't happen without him.
KiffininCanton
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 8:34 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Kress » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:29 am

KiffininCanton wrote:the kicking position by definition is defined by single, big moments (see Norwood and Vinatieri). The missed kick in Green Bay on Christmas Eve, costing us a division title and first round bye and basically being the beginning of the end of Dungy in Tampa is a big mark against his legacy as a Buc.



I intentionally chose not to mention that, because it didn't happen so why would I?

Plus a bit unfair, given the number of games he won. At the end of the day, a week 2 win is worth just as much as a week 17 etc.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby rephyr » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:25 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Brate has already scored more TD's than 9 of our top 25 all time receivers and he still has a locker (so check yourself). My point was, I hope anybody we have had for only 3 years wouldnt make our top 25.


Winston is already our best QB ever. Sorry, Doug.
rephyr
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby terrytate » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:41 pm

Davin Joseph
Donald Penn
Chidi Ahanatu

Most of the who's who has been covered, that's about all I can add off the top of my head.
User avatar
terrytate
 
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:49 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Alpha » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:18 am

I agree with MJ's logic and NY's heart. Joe doesn't deserve to be in the top 25...but he damn sure does.




The only guy I'd even consider that hasn't been mentioned is Richard "Batman" Wood.

In the early days...we was a standout. Including the "early glory days" in the late 70's. He was a helluva player. I would argue he was as or more valuable...and as good as Hugh Green.
Alpha
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:51 am
Location: St. Pete
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Deja Entendu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:29 am

Alpha wrote:I agree with MJ's logic and NY's heart. Joe doesn't deserve to be in the top 25...but he damn sure does.




The only guy I'd even consider that hasn't been mentioned is Richard "Batman" Wood.

In the early days...we was a standout. Including the "early glory days" in the late 70's. He was a helluva player. I would argue he was as or more valuable...and as good as Hugh Green.


He's #22
Deja Entendu
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:59 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:16 am

terrytate wrote:Davin Joseph
Donald Penn
Chidi Ahanatu

Most of the who's who has been covered, that's about all I can add off the top of my head.


Davin's a solid choice. Another 2-3 good years here and I think things are different.
Penn is another solid one, but I just can't based on how much his departure stings to this day. So stupid.

Chidi is interesting because folks now forget how highly regarded he was. He was sort of the fourth Amigo for awhile on those mid-late 90s front sevens with Sapp, Brooks, and Hardy. The problem I have with him is - and maybe I'm remembering wrong - I recall him talking a lot of **** about the organization and his teammates when he left town.

Does anyone remember this? Am I making it up?
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: The 25 Card Question

Postby Kress » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:56 am

You're asking a bunch of people who routinely talk **** about this organization.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Previous

post

Return to Team Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Super K and 8 guests