***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Naismith wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:Allbright's argument also only takes TD/INT ratio in to account.


Was he making an argument or just posting those stats? I didn't see any other tweets if there was more context to it.


He just posted stats. I don't see why Bucs fans can't just face the truth. It's not necessarily a bad thing nor does it indicate a trend or path Winston will go on. He posted immutable facts.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 pm

Buc fans are overly sensitive about Winston. I think it's based on our recent history of good things going bad.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby bschucher » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:41 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:Buc fans are overly sensitive about Winston. I think it's based on our recent history of good things going bad.



Indeed.. I know that I surely thought we had something in Freeman.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:09 am

bschucher wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:Buc fans are overly sensitive about Winston. I think it's based on our recent history of good things going bad.



Indeed.. I know that I surely thought we had something in Freeman.


We all did, and anybody who's playing the, "You're being silly if you're at all worried something might go wrong with Winston" card is an idiot, a Noles homer, or has been a Bucs fan since April 2015. I've lost count of all the saviors this franchise has had over the years. Frankly, Winston is a safer bet than any of them. But he's still a bet. Once he raises the Lombardi over his head and it all becomes house money, THEN I'll relax.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby sanka » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:01 am

Allbright is a dumbass,...he is not Allbright at all.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Buc2 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:29 pm

sanka wrote:Allbright is a dumbass,...he is not Allbright at all.

Is this what you were trying to say to get a laugh...

Allbright is a dumbass...he is not at Allbright.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Concrete » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:08 pm

Looks like Winston and Evans are sporting new face masks this year. Damn it's dead...



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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:23 pm

Its almost time.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:15 pm

Concrete wrote:Looks like Winston and Evans are sporting new face masks this year. Damn it's dead...



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You know it's dead when I start searching google for previous facemask comparisons. Good grief.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:59 pm

Always seemed to me that the two-bar masks like that were an invitation to get poked in the eye.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Buc2 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:33 pm

Something I just read that was a bit sobering...

General manager Jason Licht has re-shaped the Bucs' roster in the past four years. Only seven players — Gerald McCoy, Lavonte David, Demar Dotson, Doug Martin, Will Gholston, Luke Stocker and Keith Tandy — remain from when Licht walked into the team's facility in the spring of 2014.


It may have been said, but if it was, I wasn't paying attention. That's a hellava turnover in 4 years.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:31 am

Buc2 wrote:Something I just read that was a bit sobering...

General manager Jason Licht has re-shaped the Bucs' roster in the past four years. Only seven players — Gerald McCoy, Lavonte David, Demar Dotson, Doug Martin, Will Gholston, Luke Stocker and Keith Tandy — remain from when Licht walked into the team's facility in the spring of 2014.


It may have been said, but if it was, I wasn't paying attention. That's a hellava turnover in 4 years.


It makes sense since we've had two different head coaches cleaning house since Licht came in with Lovie, and they were both getting rid of guys from two previous head coaches over the previous three seasons. Schiano was still getting rid of Raheem's guys when he got fired. Lovie/Licht were getting rid of Schiano AND Raheem's guys, and then Koetter was getting rid of Lovie's guys. So with that in mind, it makes sense there'd be a lot of attrition.

That said...man. We have nobody left from the Gruden era. We have 3 guys left from the Raheem/Dom era (GMC, Dotson, and Stocker) and four guys left from the Schiano/Dom era (LVD, Martin, Gholston, and Tandy.)

To break it down another way, by draft:
2009: Demar Dotson (signed as an UFA.)
2010: Gerald McCoy.
2011: Luke Stocker.
2012: Doug Martin, Lavonte David, Keith Tandy
2013: William Gholston

That's...not great. Admittedly, not a ton of teams have a lot of guys left from drafts that happened 5+ years ago. But it's not hard to see why we've been struggling for so long.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:56 am

It's only Gholson's 5th yr coming up and he's considered one of elder statesmen on this roster.

That's pretty sad, but also very positive for many reasons.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:00 am

From Raheem's days to the present people in here have been calling for heads in the basket. I think the big one was where the o-line didnt back Glennon over Freeman and they all got canned except Demar.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:02 am

This is why I hate regime change as a fan pipedream to a quick fix. It's not. You spend two years trying to scrap off what the last guy did only to get canned and have the next guy repeat. It's especially frustrating when you have a guy like Schiano get rid of Raheem guys to only go back to those same kind of guys with Lovie afterwards. And don't get me started on the offense. The only thing that made the Lovie firing even close to okay was that we moved DK up. If it was for another coach who was going to bring in his new DC and OC schemes, I would've lost my ****. The fact that Mike Glennon had to learn four ****ing playbooks during his rookie contract says everything.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bucs N Beers » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:22 am

DreadNaught wrote:It's only Gholson's 5th yr coming up and he's considered one of elder statesmen on this roster.

That's pretty sad, but also very positive for many reasons.


It would be sad if we were still looked at as a lovable loser. It's very positive as we're considered a team on the rise. IMO the fact that we have a very young roster (which also happens to be very talented) means that our window of winning is going to be open for a long time.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:47 am

Almost time! tickticktick.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:48 am

That reminds me, hey Bootz! Revis---tickticktick.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:57 pm

DreadNaught wrote:It's only Gholson's 5th yr coming up and he's considered one of elder statesmen on this roster.

That's pretty sad, but also very positive for many reasons.


Incredibly, Gholston is still only 26 (for a few more days).
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mex-Buc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:18 pm

Tampa Bay Bucs DT Gerald McCoy done "holding his tongue


http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/ba ... dt_ge.html

He had some strong words on Twitter today..

Is he finally done with all smiles during the season? Or his corniest pre game speeches?

Should we expect more of a Sapp Nasty side of him?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 pm

He doesn't have the natural nasty. Trying to force it ain't gonna work.

He's a technician, stick with that and let the passionate people do the motivating.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:27 am

Yep.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:22 am

McCoy just needs to stop trying to be something he's not. He's a big ol' goof, but as long as he's a premier DT, that's fine. But leader he aint.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:32 am

It's a shame that he was pushed to be the face of the franchise and leader when that's really not his gig. If he was a mid first rounder or later and was putting up 8-9 sacks a year and was just a quiet goofy dude - people would absolutely love the guy. But when he was drafted we were on the downslide, went through massive turnover, and didn't have any stars to fill that role.

GMac is a super nice guy and a supremely talented DT. Optics and everything else changes perception of him, which is unfortunate. Make no mistake about it, if GMac wasn't on the team, we'd have a massive hole to fill.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:37 am

Can we stop trying to make McCoy into Sapp?

That's what it's been his whole career, and it doesn't need to be. If anyone is going to turn up the nastiness on the DL I think it will be Ayers.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:43 am

McCoy doesn't have the preferred natural leadership
McCoy doesn't have the preferred nastiness when he plays
McCoy will never be Sapp

Here is what DOES have, immense physical talent and a tireless work ethic that allows him to lead by example while ALSO collecting the MOST QBs sacks for a DT over the past 4 seasons and 2nd most (to Aaron Donald) over the past 3 seasons. He's without a doubt a top 3 player at his position in the entire NFL and the position he plays is vital to the success of our defense.

Not to mention is 100x the man off the field that Sapp ever was. Gerald has never embarrassed the fan base with is behavior and sets a phenomenal example for young players to follow.

McCoy isn't perfect, but the hate he receives from a small segment of the fanbase borders on craziness. He's never had another decent pass rusher along the line (he could have had we not let Michael Bennett walk away for nothing) and he's never had an offense that lets our defense play with a lead late in games consistently where McCoy could really impose his will like all great pass rushers do. Despite that McCoy is still putting together a great career. Now that we have guys like Ayers, Spence, and Baker along the line and an offense that should be able score some freaking points, which means McCoy is in the best position he's ever been and I expect even better production than the perennial All-Pro he already is.

We're lucky to have a player like Gerald for what he brings on the field and off of it.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:11 am

Not to mention he's only 29! He is in his prime and has a lot of good years in front of him. Good years that we are getting at a ****ing bargain! He's signed until 2022 with a cap hit of $13M/yr.... For comparison that is 2/3rds what Short it is and HALF of what Suh's hit is going to be over that same time. And this is before Aaron Donald's insane deal completely resets the DT market. This is also McCoy's last year of guaranteed money.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:36 am

It seems to me that it's GMac himself that wants to be seen as a leader and be like Sapp. He gets mad when people say he's not. Which he isn't. Except for people like AO, no one expected him to be and no one is saying he isn't a great DT in this league. Until GMac can accept who and what he is himself, he's always going to feel like everyone sees him as a failure.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:44 am

Buc2 wrote:It seems to me that it's GMac himself that wants to be seen as a leader and be like Sapp. He gets mad when people say he's not. Which he isn't. Except for people like AO, no one expected him to be and no one is saying he isn't a great DT in this league. Until GMac can accept who and what he is himself, he's always going to feel like everyone sees him as a failure.


I agree GMac reads/reacts to both fan and media criticism way too much. Critics know he has rabbit ears when it comes this stuff so it only emboldens them now.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Concrete » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:50 pm

MJW wrote:Always seemed to me that the two-bar masks like that were an invitation to get poked in the eye.


Why is that? The eyes seem as equally exposed in either face mask...


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