***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mex-Buc » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:43 am

I just got my End Zone tickets to see my Bucs at Arizona! :drinkingcheers:

Hopefully they DO come to play this year, I went last season and it was dreadful.. Doug Martin injured in the 1st quarter, Vjax running the wrong route which lead to an INT, anyways, everyone knows the story, but it was a great experience, that stadium is awesome!

Anyone here going to this game?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:01 am

I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

real bucs fan wrote:I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.


Mine also. We've added some explosive weapons and kicked Marpet inside to Center w/ Sweezy returning, but done nothing else to bolster the run game. We did not add an O-linemen or RB in either FA or the draft other than a 5th round rookie RB.

I do think the moves we made should help in the run game, but it seems our method to fixing the rushing offense was to take less pressure off of it instead of upgrading the infrastructure. I'll trust the FO, but we are putting alot of faith in Sweezy's bad back, Marpet playing a new position, and Pamphile being 'the guy' at LG ALL working out for us. Not to mention no moves at RB and relying on Rodgers-Sims-Barber-McNichols in the first 3 games (where we REALLY need to win at least 2 of those games).
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:19 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.


Mine also. We've added some explosive weapons and kicked Marpet inside to Center w/ Sweezy returning, but done nothing else to bolster the run game. We did not add an O-linemen or RB in either FA or the draft other than a 5th round rookie RB.

I do think the moves we made should help in the run game, but it seems our method to fixing the rushing offense was to take less pressure off of it instead of upgrading the infrastructure. I'll trust the FO, but we are putting alot of faith in Sweezy's bad back, Marpet playing a new position, and Pamphile being 'the guy' at LG ALL working out for us. Not to mention no moves at RB and relying on Rodgers-Sims-Barber-McNichols in the first 3 games (where we REALLY need to win at least 2 of those games).

Agreed. Up front we are getting bigger swapping out the undersized and overmatched Hawley with a big meanie in Sweezy, but as you said we are counting on not only Sweezy's health, but Marpet transitioning to center.

Doug looks to be motivated so maybe he has one of his Pro Bowl years, but the odds of that are 50/50 at best, and the downside is a season killer.

Right now I'd describe my tune as "cautiously optimistic".
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:25 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.


Mine also. We've added some explosive weapons and kicked Marpet inside to Center w/ Sweezy returning, but done nothing else to bolster the run game. We did not add an O-linemen or RB in either FA or the draft other than a 5th round rookie RB.

I do think the moves we made should help in the run game, but it seems our method to fixing the rushing offense was to take less pressure off of it instead of upgrading the infrastructure. I'll trust the FO, but we are putting alot of faith in Sweezy's bad back, Marpet playing a new position, and Pamphile being 'the guy' at LG ALL working out for us. Not to mention no moves at RB and relying on Rodgers-Sims-Barber-McNichols in the first 3 games (where we REALLY need to win at least 2 of those games).


More than anything we're counting on coaching and player development to fix an issue. I have no problems with that. I am worried that Marpet is playing his 3rd different position in his last 4 seasons of football, but we do have other veteran options to turn to if it doesn't pan out.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby ComingThisFall » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:07 pm

https://www.pewterreport.com/pff-bucs-l ... rage-2016/

Lavonte rated 6th best OLB in coverage. Gob bless PFF and its made up statisticals
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:13 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Mine also. We've added some explosive weapons and kicked Marpet inside to Center w/ Sweezy returning, but done nothing else to bolster the run game. We did not add an O-linemen or RB in either FA or the draft other than a 5th round rookie RB.

I do think the moves we made should help in the run game, but it seems our method to fixing the rushing offense was to take less pressure off of it instead of upgrading the infrastructure. I'll trust the FO, but we are putting alot of faith in Sweezy's bad back, Marpet playing a new position, and Pamphile being 'the guy' at LG ALL working out for us. Not to mention no moves at RB and relying on Rodgers-Sims-Barber-McNichols in the first 3 games (where we REALLY need to win at least 2 of those games).


More than anything we're counting on coaching and player development to fix an issue. I have no problems with that.


Me neither, ideally that is how I would like to address most issues every offseason since that how successful franchises do it. As optimistic as I am, I still feel nervous counting on the 'coaching and player development' when it comes to the Bucs. I know history has nothing to do with the current staff, but we are scorned group of fans for good reason.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mex-Buc » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 pm

ComingThisFall wrote:https://www.pewterreport.com/pff-bucs-lb-david-didnt-give-much-coverage-2016/

Lavonte rated 6th best OLB in coverage. Gob bless PFF and its made up statisticals


LOL !

What were these experts looking at, even Antonio Gates who is 60 years old was beating him over and over...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:33 pm

ComingThisFall wrote:https://www.pewterreport.com/pff-bucs-lb-david-didnt-give-much-coverage-2016/

Lavonte rated 6th best OLB in coverage. Gob bless PFF and its made up statisticals


They look at everything except game tape.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:56 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Mine also. We've added some explosive weapons and kicked Marpet inside to Center w/ Sweezy returning, but done nothing else to bolster the run game. We did not add an O-linemen or RB in either FA or the draft other than a 5th round rookie RB.

I do think the moves we made should help in the run game, but it seems our method to fixing the rushing offense was to take less pressure off of it instead of upgrading the infrastructure. I'll trust the FO, but we are putting alot of faith in Sweezy's bad back, Marpet playing a new position, and Pamphile being 'the guy' at LG ALL working out for us. Not to mention no moves at RB and relying on Rodgers-Sims-Barber-McNichols in the first 3 games (where we REALLY need to win at least 2 of those games).


More than anything we're counting on coaching and player development to fix an issue. I have no problems with that. I am worried that Marpet is playing his 3rd different position in his last 4 seasons of football, but we do have other veteran options to turn to if it doesn't pan out.



All this drama about Marpet at center. Much ado about nothing. Guy was projected to play center, drafted to play center, and now he's playing center. Warhop said the plan all along was to move him to center. He's an ideal fit for the position. He's going to be an elite center.

I'd put damn good money down that if Mankins hadn't retired and Sweezy wasn't injured last year, he'd have been moved to C last year. Hawley was an emergency signing the year before, he was never intended as a long term solution. Koetter knew Hawley was a lightweight that got pushed around consistently, but you can't fix everything in one year.

As far as "fixing the rushing offense" goes, we DID upgrade the infrastructure by adding Sweezy, I'm not sure what you are talking about there Dread. If Adding a new player to the line isn't improving the infrastructure, what exactly is? The weak link last year was the Pamphile-Hawley connection. Pamphile isn't really a starting calibre G IMHO, but having someone anchoring the C spot and with a year of starting under his belt, he'll do for now.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:06 am

real bucs fan wrote:I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.


I have some concerns about the defense as well. We still don't have an outside pass rush (it's not horrible, it's just a handful of decent guys right now though), I'm not even sure who else is starting at LB with David and Alexander, Grimes had a surprise strong season but is on the wrong side of 30 and we don't know what to expect and the depth behind him is questionable and don't even get me started on the safeties.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:34 am

Caradoc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
More than anything we're counting on coaching and player development to fix an issue. I have no problems with that. I am worried that Marpet is playing his 3rd different position in his last 4 seasons of football, but we do have other veteran options to turn to if it doesn't pan out.



All this drama about Marpet at center. Much ado about nothing. Guy was projected to play center, drafted to play center, and now he's playing center. Warhop said the plan all along was to move him to center. He's an ideal fit for the position. He's going to be an elite center.

I'd put damn good money down that if Mankins hadn't retired and Sweezy wasn't injured last year, he'd have been moved to C last year. Hawley was an emergency signing the year before, he was never intended as a long term solution. Koetter knew Hawley was a lightweight that got pushed around consistently, but you can't fix everything in one year.

As far as "fixing the rushing offense" goes, we DID upgrade the infrastructure by adding Sweezy, I'm not sure what you are talking about there Dread. If Adding a new player to the line isn't improving the infrastructure, what exactly is? The weak link last year was the Pamphile-Hawley connection. Pamphile isn't really a starting calibre G IMHO, but having someone anchoring the C spot and with a year of starting under his belt, he'll do for now.


I agree Marpet will be a good Center, I've been supporting the move here for awhile. However, Sweezy was signed BECAUSE Mankins retired, so there was never a scenario where both Mankins and Sweezy were in the line-up together w/ Marpet at Center. Also we added Sweezy in FA prior to last season as you know. So my point was we didn't add anyone this offseason and that we are relying on Sweezy returning from a back injury.

I feel good about all the moves individually and truly believe they all have good chance of working out successfully. But when you combine/parlay all 3 (Sweezy's health, Marpet switching positions, Pamphile stepping up) it obviously lowers the overall odds it all working out.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:54 am

Miller4Prez64 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I'm still worried about the run game. If this season disappoints, I'll bet not being able to run the ball is the big culprit.


I have some concerns about the defense as well. We still don't have an outside pass rush (it's not horrible, it's just a handful of decent guys right now though), I'm not even sure who else is starting at LB with David and Alexander, Grimes had a surprise strong season but is on the wrong side of 30 and we don't know what to expect and the depth behind him is questionable and don't even get me started on the safeties.


I really like our starters on defense for most part. Ayers suffered a high ankle sprain week 2 last season, but we saw in week 1 and then again late in the season the type of impact player he can be. Imo Ayers would've been a 10 sack guy last season if healthy. Spence should be better in year 2 and Jaq Smith will be 12 months removed from knee surgery once we get to week 1 and in a contract season. I like the D-line alot.

Bond/Beckwith will battle for the SLB spot. Bond has a year in the system and Beckwith will probably start on PUP while he completes rehab from a knee injury last October. I don't expect much of anything from Beckwith until the 2nd half of the season tbh. But Beckwith should be able to back up both the SLB and MLB spots for us. Bond should win the job in TC and hopefully can stay healthy. The fact is the SLB only play 40% of the snaps and I don't believe Mike Smith will be putting the SLB in position to burn the defense in pass defense very often just like we did with Daryl Smith last season.

CB depth is concern, but everyone is coming back and the CBs played great the second half of the season. It's impossible to have known quantities for all 53 roster spots, so we're going to have to rely on some player development here at CB with guys like Ryan Smith, Jude, Elliot. Hopefully Grimes doesn't lose a step and can stay healthy like last year. VH3 should improve as most 2nd year players do as well. We were very fortunate both starting CBs stayed healthy all 16 games last season.

I actually feel better about the Safety position than at any time in recent memory. Tandy played lights out the final 5 or so games (Conte got hurt in the Charger game iirc), and Conte played better when the defense started turning it around in the second half. We added a very athletic and talented (but raw) centerfield type FS in Justin Evans in addition to Wilcox in FA who can also play either Safety position. The ability to have our safeties play both roles (FS and SS) in our defense seems to be a highly coveted trait and something Mike Smith has stated allows us to disguise the defense pre-snap much more effectively.

The most reassuring thing about our defense in 2017 is that Mike Smith returned along with alot of the same pieces that made the Bucs defense one the best in the NFL if several key categories over the 2nd half of last season. If we can pick up in 2017 anywhere close to where we left off last season we'll be just fine on defense imo. It was our offense that fucked us in December last season in both the Cowboys and Saints games that we lost.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:55 am

Everyone is so focused on the OL, I think the real concern was the RBs. Martin had a crash and burn year, and we had all the injuries. The reality is that Martin's 2.9 yard average last year was lazy and pathetic. And the fact that Rodgers got 4.3 ypc behind the same line tells me it's more on Martin than the line. If we as a whole would have average just what Quizz was last year (4.3ypc) over the season we would've been top 5 in rushing. Even if Martin doesn't get back into his awesome 4.9 ypc self, as long as we get something in the 4.2+ypc (which is middle of the pack average) range we'll be fine. And if all this "Martin is back in shape" stuff turn out to be just hype, we still have Rodgers who actually did it last year, AND as a secondary safety net / wild card we have McNic who I know the FO is secretly hoping to be this years Jordan Howard.

And this is all without even factoring in a possible upgrade from Sweezy.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:01 am

If Quizz is a primary ball carrier for us than I'll have serious concerns about our run game. He's a solid RB and can play in the event of injury. But imo we really need Doug back in to '13/'15 version and/or McNichols to be surprise rookie with Sims being healthy and making plays on 3rd down.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:06 am

Sims is done, imo. I'd be surprised if he makes the roster.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:09 am

Doctor wrote:Sims is done, imo. I'd be surprised if he makes the roster.


Done how? He's not injured at the moment. He not good enough to beat out Barber or Quizz?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:18 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Doctor wrote:Sims is done, imo. I'd be surprised if he makes the roster.


Done how? He's not injured at the moment. He not good enough to beat out Barber or Quizz?

Nope.

He also failed to become the pass catching specialist and occasional change of pace RB JL saw him as. He's been nothing but meh. At the very least McNic is here to replace him in the role he never even really had- 3rd down specialist. With Quizz being a much better back up RB and Martin still holding on to his starting spot, that leaves Sims competing with a not only Barber (who the FO seems to have a slight crush on) but all the other countless no-name RBs that will be coming in and out during TC and Preseason. Sims is a known "meh" commodity, which will lose out to an "unknown potential" commodity that has a stellar preseason every time.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Concrete » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:25 am

The area I'm least confident in is the cornerback position, not because I don't like our starters, but if Grimes or Hargreaves were to go down we'd have Jude, Elliot, Ryan or McClain starting. That's not to say I don't like our cornerbacks, it's just the area I'm least confident in, on defense, if our guys miss time, or even unfairly expecting Grimes to play at the level he did last year at 34. Jude was manning the nickel until his four game suspension and Ryan, who's been flashing and has good athleticism, has been on the outside playing third corner in OTA's/mini camp. McClain and Elliot can play both nickel and third corner so for now them and Jude could be battling for that spot. Of course that could all change once training rolls around but for now this is what we know.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:32 am

Doctor wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Done how? He's not injured at the moment. He not good enough to beat out Barber or Quizz?

Nope.

He also failed to become the pass catching specialist and occasional change of pace RB JL saw him as. He's been nothing but meh. At the very least McNic is here to replace him in the role he never even really had- 3rd down specialist. With Quizz being a much better back up RB and Martin still holding on to his starting spot, that leaves Sims competing with a not only Barber (who the FO seems to have a slight crush on) but all the other countless no-name RBs that will be coming in and out during TC and Preseason. Sims is a known "meh" commodity, which will lose out to an "unknown potential" commodity that has a stellar preseason every time.


I could see a path where Sims does not make the roster. Even if he does, I think this is his last year as a Buccaneer either way since his contract expires.

I've never been the biggest Sims fan. He's definitely been our 3rd down RB when healthy and in those games he's effective in that role. He's not a good runner at all imo, but is an elite pass catcher for a RB. When healthy I like him as the 3rd down RB. He can exploit a match-up on a LB better than any other RB on the team and has shown the ability to make people miss in the second level.

But he's injured too often and I haven't seen him show the ability to run it between the tackles with any effectiveness at all in 3 seasons.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:35 am

I hope we keep Sims. I know McNichols is gonna be the shiny new toy, but Sims has a speed element no other RB on our roster has. Seems like the org is high on Barber too, so definitely will be interesting once Martin comes off suspension.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:35 am

Concrete wrote:The area I'm least confident in is the cornerback position, not because I don't like our starters, but if Grimes or Hargreaves were to go down we'd have Jude, Elliot, Ryan or McClain starting. That's not to say I don't like our cornerbacks, it's just the area I'm least confident in, on defense, if our guys miss time, or even unfairly expecting Grimes to play at the level he did last year at 34. Jude was manning the nickel until his four game suspension and Ryan, who's been flashing and has good athleticism, has been on the outside playing third corner in OTA's/mini camp. McClain and Elliot can play both nickel and third corner so for now them and Jude could be battling for that spot. Of course that could all change once training rolls around but for now this is what we know.


Yup, I agree going into TC it's Grimes and VH3 as the boundary corners, with Ryan Smith being the primary back-up on the outside.

McClain, Elliott, Jude all competing for the nickel role. McClain can back-up on the outside also.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:35 am

I'd take a 5th for Sims at this point. The guy has good hands and serious burst when he turns it on, but he's not a reliable runner of the football. His feet are so damn choppy.

Doug, Quizz, McNichols and Barber are all pretty safe bets to make the team. I think Sims is trade bait once Doug comes back.



As far as CB, if Grimes and Hargreaves went down, I'm not thrilled but I don't think it is a season ender. Jude got some experience playing outside a couple years ago, the team sounds very high on Ryan Smith, Elliot played well in the slot last year and McClain has experience in the system. Hopefully Grimes and Hargreaves both stay healthy all year, but I think we can survive if one went down.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:36 am

Doctor wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Done how? He's not injured at the moment. He not good enough to beat out Barber or Quizz?

Nope.

He also failed to become the pass catching specialist and occasional change of pace RB JL saw him as. He's been nothing but meh. At the very least McNic is here to replace him in the role he never even really had- 3rd down specialist. With Quizz being a much better back up RB and Martin still holding on to his starting spot, that leaves Sims competing with a not only Barber (who the FO seems to have a slight crush on) but all the other countless no-name RBs that will be coming in and out during TC and Preseason. Sims is a known "meh" commodity, which will lose out to an "unknown potential" commodity that has a stellar preseason every time.


but... but...

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!!!

I agree with you though...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:39 am

real bucs fan wrote:I hope we keep Sims. I know McNichols is gonna be the shiny new toy, but Sims has a speed element no other RB on our roster has. Seems like the org is high on Barber too, so definitely will be interesting once Martin comes off suspension.


Yeah, Martin doesn't count against the 53 until we decide to activate him AFTER his 3 game suspension. So going into weeks 1-3 we can keep all 4; Quizz, Barber, Sims, and McNichols. So Sims will likely make the team initially no matter what if healthy.

But come the Monday after our week 3 game Doug can be activated and I seriously doubt we will keep 5 RBs on the 53 man roster, so 1 of those 5 will be out... Could be Sims for sure depending on what we are seeing from McNichols and others.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:46 pm

Sims ain't getting cut. When Martin returns it'll likely be Barber or McNichcols as both have PS eligibility(gotta confirm on Barber though). McNichcols is already becoming a bit overrated around here. He's a 5th round pick who will begin TC rehabbing from surgery and at the end of the depth chart. He won't be a factor at all this year unless there are multiple injuries.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Concrete » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:46 pm

I agree, it'll likely be Barber that won't make the 53 and we'll go with Martin, Rodgers , Sims and McNichols.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Nano » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:00 pm

Barber is a better story than player
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Super K » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:04 pm

Nano wrote:Barber is a better story than player


True, but he's the only guy who brings a little "boom" with him when running the ball..

He's a bit bigger and stronger runner...closest to the kind of guy I think we need to hammer away at opposing D's..

(My draft RB mancrush Perine has been blowing people away at workouts thus far fwiw)..
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:54 pm

Super K wrote:
Nano wrote:Barber is a better story than player


True, but he's the only guy who brings a little "boom" with him when running the ball..

He's a bit bigger and stronger runner...closest to the kind of guy I think we need to hammer away at opposing D's..

(My draft RB mancrush Perine has been blowing people away at workouts thus far fwiw)..


Doug Martin does that just fine. Peyton Barber shouldn't be a guy we're forcing carries to. If he has to see the field it's not a good thing at this stage in his career and probably never will be a good thing.
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