***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:04 am

The guy is in the middle of what could be a Hall Of Fame career. I think we need to lighten up a bit. No, he's not a natural born killer, or a team leader. But he IS a five time Pro Bowler and frankly, one of the best Buccaneers ever.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:07 am

MJW wrote:The guy is in the middle of what could be a Hall Of Fame career. I think we need to lighten up a bit. No, he's not a natural born killer, or a team leader. But he IS a five time Pro Bowler and frankly, one of the best Buccaneers ever.


I think the 4 time all-pro is better reference than the Pro Bowl, which has become meaningless, but unless he really steps up...I think it would be a stretch to ever see McCoy in the HOF.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:18 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
MJW wrote:The guy is in the middle of what could be a Hall Of Fame career. I think we need to lighten up a bit. No, he's not a natural born killer, or a team leader. But he IS a five time Pro Bowler and frankly, one of the best Buccaneers ever.


I think the 4 time all-pro is better reference than the Pro Bowl, which has become meaningless, but unless he really steps up...I think it would be a stretch to ever see McCoy in the HOF.


Tony Romo is a HoF player w/ only ONE (2nd team) All-Pro selection :D .

Back to McCoy, I'm a big fan and he's a very good player for our team. We need him to be great if we want this team to go where we all want. He has the size and talent to be that type of player, but imo his mentality is what holds him back.

Here is the thing, how many HoF D-linemen were 'happy go lucky' types on the gridiron? Most, if not all had a 'mean streak' or 'nastiness' in them out on the field. Especially when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. I believe GMAC plays hard, but there is another gear he can reach if would with more of a mean streak out there imho.

Don't get me wrong, GMAC is heck of a player and very disruptive force out there and we're really talking about a few sack timely 4th quarter sacks over the course of 16 games that separate who he is from who he/we want him to be.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:24 am

Caradoc wrote:
bahamian:bucfan wrote:I just listened to McCoy's presser and I came away with a few things:

- He seems a bit jealous /pissed off with the Winston being the LEADER of the team. The way he said, It is all good and all to have a francise qb but the leader of the team should be on defense. That just sounded like jealousy to me

- The three credible sources seem as if they REALLY played on his ego. Reading through the lines it appears as if they said something to this effect to him: "Dude, you were there WAY before Jameis! That is YOUR team! How are you going to let a young kid take over your team!

- After seven seasons of playing in the nfl, he JUST realize that he needs to step up his play/leadership? I call bs! McCoy is who he is. A smiley face nice guy! I have often said one of the greatest dline man was Reggie White. Off the field he was a saint BUT on the field he was satan himself. McCoy is just too nice ON the damn field. And I do not see this changing now!

- I am happy that McCoy knows I am one of the few fans who feel like we should trade his nice smiley face ass while he still has value. Don't get me wrong, he is a decent dt, BUT he just lacks IT, dog, fire, etc! I am certain we can parlay him for a net positive in players/draft picks.

In conclusion, I would LOVE for McCoy to turn into that alpha dog Ala Sapp, Reggie White, Lt etc; BUT I highly doubt it. You are what you are and after seven years he is not going to turn into a "nasty animal" all of a sudden. Also, the dude is just NOT a vocal leader. He comes across as being fake and phoney when he is TRYING to inspire the team. Thus we will be stuck with Gerald "Smileyface" McCoy!



WOW.

OK, I have been one of McCoy's critics here, though not his biggest one, but dayum, I got a 180 degree different read from you on that presser. It sounded to me like McCoy just owned a whole **** ton of the criticism that has been leveled his way over the years. The "where was he in the 4th quarter" has been a staple criticism, and he just owned it. The leadership style, he just owned he was doing it wrong.

That presser was just about everything a critic of the guy would want to hear, him owning it and promising to do better.

It sure as **** wasn't him being pissy.

It wasn't "it appears as if they said something to this effect to him: "Dude, you were there WAY before Jameis! That is YOUR team! How are you going to let a young kid take over your team!"

It was, "you shouldn't have needed Jameis to clean up your ****, stop being a puppy and be a dawg!". And him owning that he hasn't been the guy he was supposed to be.

Good for him. Damn good for him. And good for us if he takes it to heart.


Thanks. I don't know WTF Bahamian watched. He is either THAT big a McCoy hater or swinging THAT hard from Winston's nut sack. Not sure which.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:26 am

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
I think the 4 time all-pro is better reference than the Pro Bowl, which has become meaningless, but unless he really steps up...I think it would be a stretch to ever see McCoy in the HOF.


Tony Romo is a HoF player w/ only ONE (2nd team) All-Pro selection :D .

Back to McCoy, I'm a big fan and he's a very good player for our team. We need him to be great if we want this team to go where we all want. He has the size and talent to be that type of player, but imo his mentality is what holds him back.

Here is the thing, how many HoF D-linemen were 'happy go lucky' types on the gridiron? Most, if not all had a 'mean streak' or 'nastiness' in them out on the field. Especially when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. I believe GMAC plays hard, but there is another gear he can reach if would with more of a mean streak out there imho.

Don't get me wrong, GMAC is heck of a player and very disruptive force out there and we're really talking about a few sack timely 4th quarter sacks over the course of 16 games that separate who he is from who he/we want him to be.


Is McCoy "happy go lucky" on the field?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:34 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Tony Romo is a HoF player w/ only ONE (2nd team) All-Pro selection :D .

Back to McCoy, I'm a big fan and he's a very good player for our team. We need him to be great if we want this team to go where we all want. He has the size and talent to be that type of player, but imo his mentality is what holds him back.

Here is the thing, how many HoF D-linemen were 'happy go lucky' types on the gridiron? Most, if not all had a 'mean streak' or 'nastiness' in them out on the field. Especially when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. I believe GMAC plays hard, but there is another gear he can reach if would with more of a mean streak out there imho.

Don't get me wrong, GMAC is heck of a player and very disruptive force out there and we're really talking about a few sack timely 4th quarter sacks over the course of 16 games that separate who he is from who he/we want him to be.


Is McCoy "happy go lucky" on the field?


Relative to the average NFL DT, I'd say so.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 am

DreadNaught wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Is McCoy "happy go lucky" on the field?


Relative to the average NFL DT, I'd say so.


Any example? I have not seen that type of mentality on the field from him. Off the field he is absolutely happy go lucky.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby bahamian:bucfan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:35 am

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
.




Back to McCoy, I'm a big fan and he's a very good player for our team. We need him to be great if we want this team to go where we all want. He has the size and talent to be that type of player, but imo his mentality is what holds him back.

Here is the thing, how many HoF D-linemen were 'happy go lucky' types on the gridiron? Most, if not all had a 'mean streak' or 'nastiness' in them out on the field. Especially when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. I believe GMAC plays hard, but there is another gear he can reach if would with more of a mean streak out there imho.

.


- Exactly;; HE IS NOT A NATURAL BORN KILLER OR LEADER! So what makes him think all of a sudden he will become both at this stage in his life. Again, I say bs

- My sentiments also, the dude has the size AND talent to be great but his mentality WILL NOT allow him to be

-And this is my biggest gripe with McCoy; what hof dlineman was happy go luck on the field ...............NOT A ONE! They all had that nastiness, dog, it, fire etc on the field. This is what Gerald lacks and as a result will never be what he could/should have been!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 am

bahamian:bucfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:


Back to McCoy, I'm a big fan and he's a very good player for our team. We need him to be great if we want this team to go where we all want. He has the size and talent to be that type of player, but imo his mentality is what holds him back.

Here is the thing, how many HoF D-linemen were 'happy go lucky' types on the gridiron? Most, if not all had a 'mean streak' or 'nastiness' in them out on the field. Especially when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. I believe GMAC plays hard, but there is another gear he can reach if would with more of a mean streak out there imho.

.


- Exactly;; HE IS NOT A NATURAL BORN KILLER OR LEADER! So what makes him think all of a sudden he will become both at this stage in his life. Again, I say bs

- My sentiments also, the dude has the size AND talent to be great but his mentality WILL NOT allow him to be

-And this is my biggest gripe with McCoy; what hof dlineman was happy go luck on the field ...............NOT A ONE! They all had that nastiness, dog, it, fire etc on the field. This is what Gerald lacks and as a result will never be what he could/should have been!


That's crazy to say that a "happy go lucky" player can't be a HOF or be an all-time great. Just because there aren't many, if any examples doesn't make it a rule.

Injuries, talent surrounding him, his own talent, and quite possibly his demeanor keep him away from that all time echelon IMO, but he's still a great player to have on the Bucs and I'm happy we have him.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby bahamian:bucfan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:56 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
bahamian:bucfan wrote:
- Exactly;; HE IS NOT A NATURAL BORN KILLER OR LEADER! So what makes him think all of a sudden he will become both at this stage in his life. Again, I say bs

- My sentiments also, the dude has the size AND talent to be great but his mentality WILL NOT allow him to be

-And this is my biggest gripe with McCoy; what hof dlineman was happy go luck on the field ...............NOT A ONE! They all had that nastiness, dog, it, fire etc on the field. This is what Gerald lacks and as a result will never be what he could/should have been!


That's crazy to say that a "happy go lucky" player can't be a HOF or be an all-time great. Just because there aren't many, if any examples doesn't make it a rule.

Injuries, talent surrounding him, his own talent, and quite possibly his demeanor keep him away from that all time echelon IMO, but he's still a great player to have on the Bucs and I'm happy we have him.


My point exactly! His demeanor/persona is just off to be "one of the greats".

Two examples; Reggie White and Troy Palumolo(sp). Every one and their mother knew that these two could/would not kill a fly Off the field. But on the field they were THE MOST FEARED player on the field. Why, because their demeanor was "I am going to kill your entire family if that what it takes to win"!

This my friend is what McCoy lacks! Yes he is a good dt, but his mental make up will not allow him to be great. Hey, I pray that the "light" does turn on for him and he proves me wrong but I highly doubt it. You either have "IT" or you don't! You just don't get "it" all of sudden after 3 credible sources speak to you at the pro bowl.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Cheb » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:39 am

bahamian:bucfan wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
That's crazy to say that a "happy go lucky" player can't be a HOF or be an all-time great. Just because there aren't many, if any examples doesn't make it a rule.

Injuries, talent surrounding him, his own talent, and quite possibly his demeanor keep him away from that all time echelon IMO, but he's still a great player to have on the Bucs and I'm happy we have him.


My point exactly! His demeanor/persona is just off to be "one of the greats".

Two examples; Reggie White and Troy Palumolo(sp). Every one and their mother knew that these two could/would not kill a fly Off the field. But on the field they were THE MOST FEARED player on the field. Why, because their demeanor was "I am going to kill your entire family if that what it takes to win"!

This my friend is what McCoy lacks! Yes he is a good dt, but his mental make up will not allow him to be great. Hey, I pray that the "light" does turn on for him and he proves me wrong but I highly doubt it. You either have "IT" or you don't! You just don't get "it" all of sudden after 3 credible sources speak to you at the pro bowl.


Reggie White didn't want to kill anyone's family. He would get mad at you for cursing, but he talked to offensive linemen about Jesus between plays. Literally preaching. He wasn't feared because he was mean. He was feared because he would hit your quarterback all the time and you couldn't stop him from doing so. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

Polamalu likewise didn't want to kill anyone. He was a nice dude that played hard. He will probably be in the Hall of Fame. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

Derrick Brooks was a recent Hall of Famer and an example very close to home. He kept his cool, didn't talk ****, and played hard. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

A player's personality between plays does not prevent them from being a great player. Their actions during a play do.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby tjax03 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:55 am

So what is this big major announcement that is supposed to come today at 1pm?

http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article- ... 512ccee393
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby NYBF » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:06 am

tjax03 wrote:So what is this big major announcement that is supposed to come today at 1pm?

http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article- ... 512ccee393


Hard Knocks.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby GameTime » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:38 am

I dont expect any big changes from McCoy, and its not the worst thing. At this point in his life, he is who he is. What i would like to see is less snaps for him in the first half, less base defense snaps. He is a racehorse, he gets nicked up easily. Hes also getting up in years, I dont believe hes a guy that will have an effective 15 year career. Use mcdonald, sealver (or whomever) early in games and early in downs. Is it ideal? Heck no. But neither is watching mccoy limp off the field.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:45 am

Then maybe he might appear in the fourth...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Teitan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:46 am

I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:10 pm

Teitan wrote:I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.


I think that those are done. I get the strong impression they were a big part of what people said to him at the Pro Bowl.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby threadkiller » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:24 pm

Cheb wrote:
bahamian:bucfan wrote:
My point exactly! His demeanor/persona is just off to be "one of the greats".

Two examples; Reggie White and Troy Palumolo(sp). Every one and their mother knew that these two could/would not kill a fly Off the field. But on the field they were THE MOST FEARED player on the field. Why, because their demeanor was "I am going to kill your entire family if that what it takes to win"!

This my friend is what McCoy lacks! Yes he is a good dt, but his mental make up will not allow him to be great. Hey, I pray that the "light" does turn on for him and he proves me wrong but I highly doubt it. You either have "IT" or you don't! You just don't get "it" all of sudden after 3 credible sources speak to you at the pro bowl.


Reggie White didn't want to kill anyone's family. He would get mad at you for cursing, but he talked to offensive linemen about Jesus between plays. Literally preaching. He wasn't feared because he was mean. He was feared because he would hit your quarterback all the time and you couldn't stop him from doing so. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

Polamalu likewise didn't want to kill anyone. He was a nice dude that played hard. He will probably be in the Hall of Fame. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

Derrick Brooks was a recent Hall of Famer and an example very close to home. He kept his cool, didn't talk ****, and played hard. Perhaps his mental makeup prevented him from being truly great.

A player's personality between plays does not prevent them from being a great player. Their actions during a play do.


We Kansas State fans don't share your opinion of Troy Polamalu's character on the football field.

https://youtu.be/Ac-JYp25Bx0


*Also, I don't think his personality keeps him from being a great player. I think it keeps him from being a great leader of an NFL defense.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby tjax03 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:12 pm

Teitan wrote:I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.


I believe that is why we lost the Dallas game

I mean seriously. Would this fire you up to get ready to play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000759401/McCoy-brings-the-fire-in-Bucs-pregame-speech
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby NYBF » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:24 pm

tjax03 wrote:
Teitan wrote:I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.


I believe that is why we lost the Dallas game

I mean seriously. Would this fire you up to get ready to play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000759401/McCoy-brings-the-fire-in-Bucs-pregame-speech


When you were growing up, did you eat paint chips?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:38 pm

tjax03 wrote:
Teitan wrote:I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.


I believe that is why we lost the Dallas game

I mean seriously. Would this fire you up to get ready to play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000759401/McCoy-brings-the-fire-in-Bucs-pregame-speech


You're saying Cherilous would have played better in the 3rd quarter had McCoy been fiery in his pregame speech?
Last edited by PrimeMinister on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby bahamian:bucfan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:40 pm

tjax03 wrote:
Teitan wrote:I have a feeling we are going to get a lot more of those cringe-worthy Gerald pre-game speeches.


I believe that is why we lost the Dallas game

I mean seriously. Would this fire you up to get ready to play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000759401/McCoy-brings-the-fire-in-Bucs-pregame-speech


That was so embarrassing!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:26 pm

You guys want him to be something he's not, and it's an unreasonable expectation on your part. It's your problem, not his. The guy goes out and produces on the field at a rate only a handful of players at his position are capable of. He's never going to be Warren Sapp, which is what everyone is REALLY asking for here - a field marshal who fires up the D and has swagger and punches guys in the kidney in the pile. That's not who McCoy is. That's not who he was when he was at OU and that's not who he was when he was drafted #3 overall. You don't "become" that guy and when you try, you end up with that Dallas pregame speech.

Let it go. Let the man go out and do his job because he's damn good at it.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:48 am

A fun reminder about Donovan Smith: Entrenched Left Tackle

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(The chart was posted in reference to Gilliam which is why he's highlighted)

So if you're not considering a left tackle as a possibility at #19, you maybe should. I love Ram and I really like Bolles. I think Cam Robinson is the next Kenyatta, but that's not my point. We're NOT set at left tackle.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:56 am

Franchise quarterbacks who hold the ball to long for $200 MJ.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:26 am

mdb1958 wrote:Franchise quarterbacks who hold the ball to long for $200 MJ.


It's a fair point. Winston does hold the ball too long at times because he's always trying to make a play. That said, you've watched Donovan Smith enough to know that a lot of those pressures are slow feet and poor balance on his part.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Teitan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:29 am

MJW wrote:You guys want him to be something he's not, and it's an unreasonable expectation on your part. It's your problem, not his. The guy goes out and produces on the field at a rate only a handful of players at his position are capable of. He's never going to be Warren Sapp, which is what everyone is REALLY asking for here - a field marshal who fires up the D and has swagger and punches guys in the kidney in the pile. That's not who McCoy is. That's not who he was when he was at OU and that's not who he was when he was drafted #3 overall. You don't "become" that guy and when you try, you end up with that Dallas pregame speech.

Let it go. Let the man go out and do his job because he's damn good at it.



I DON'T want him to be that guy. Put his ass in the circle to watch Jameis do the pre-game hype. He tries to be that guy for some reason.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 am

MJW wrote:You guys want him to be something he's not, and it's an unreasonable expectation on your part. It's your problem, not his. The guy goes out and produces on the field at a rate only a handful of players at his position are capable of. He's never going to be Warren Sapp, which is what everyone is REALLY asking for here - a field marshal who fires up the D and has swagger and punches guys in the kidney in the pile. That's not who McCoy is. That's not who he was when he was at OU and that's not who he was when he was drafted #3 overall. You don't "become" that guy and when you try, you end up with that Dallas pregame speech.

Let it go. Let the man go out and do his job because he's damn good at it.


It's whatever, but this is a topic here because Gerald McCoy talked at length about wanting to be something that he has not been thus far is a professional. He expressed the opinion that what he has been has not been sufficient for what he wants.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Naismith » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 am

MJW wrote:A fun reminder about Donovan Smith: Entrenched Left Tackle

Image

(The chart was posted in reference to Gilliam which is why he's highlighted)

So if you're not considering a left tackle as a possibility at #19, you maybe should. I love Ram and I really like Bolles. I think Cam Robinson is the next Kenyatta, but that's not my point. We're NOT set at left tackle.


I know the team knows they need offensive line improvement. There are certainly ways to do it that don't involve using a first round pick on a new guy, but I'll be pretty pumped if they draft Bolles.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:16 am

The chart shows poor performance from the 1st round picks all the way to undrafted - go figure.
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