***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:20 pm

If only we had traded up for Whitehair instead of Aguayo...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:47 pm

real bucs fan wrote:If only we had traded up for Whitehair instead of Aguayo...


Add his name to the list of who we should've traded up for instead of Aguayo
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:00 pm

I like PFF, but don't put alot of faith on their OL grading.

Either way, we all watch the Bucs games. I'm honestly curious what people excited about Hawley saw from last season that makes you excited to see him play Center for this team in 2017???

He was terrible in the run game and average at best as a pass protector. He's got some athleticism on screens/sweeps. But overall he's a ****ing liability and his inadequacies lead to negative plays far too often.

It's great that he's tenacious, had a cool beard, and might bait someone into a personal foul once in a while. But on a play-to-play basis he is a very below average NFL Center.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:12 pm

I don't think anyone is trying to throw the man a parade. Don't rip the guy for not being Jeff Saturday.

I expected Hawley to retire tbh, I scouted and considered center prospects for the last six months.

Is he the best option? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see what happens on draft day.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:15 pm

It's a 2 year deal. Probably on the low end. At this point are there better options on the market? Probably not. So re-sign him now. You can't leave the position blank going into the draft and force yourself into drafting a center. Not only would we be forced to draft one, we'd probably be forced to start a rookie without competition or the benefit of development. There's no downside to re-signing Hawley.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:17 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:It's a 2 year deal. Probably on the low end. At this point are there better options on the market? Probably not. So re-sign him now. You can't leave the position blank going into the draft and force yourself into drafting a center. Not only would we be forced to draft one, we'd probably be forced to start a rookie without competition or the benefit of development. There's no downside to re-signing Hawley.

This.

I still think that the team should draft a guy.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:18 pm

Two things.

The first is the chart shows you can win a superbowl with a center with a bad grade.

2nd, has anyone put out the charts for the ten yard splits yet?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:20 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:It's a 2 year deal. Probably on the low end. At this point are there better options on the market? Probably not. So re-sign him now. You can't leave the position blank going into the draft and force yourself into drafting a center. Not only would we be forced to draft one, we'd probably be forced to start a rookie without competition or the benefit of development. There's no downside to re-signing Hawley.

This.

I still think that the team should draft a guy.


I think we should too. But now if we don't it won't be the end of the world. Had we let Hawley walk and didn't draft a center, it would've been the end of the world. That's the difference between the Mark Dominik and Jason Licht. Dom never left himself options in the draft. Licht does.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby BucJordan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:It's a 2 year deal. Probably on the low end. At this point are there better options on the market? Probably not. So re-sign him now. You can't leave the position blank going into the draft and force yourself into drafting a center. Not only would we be forced to draft one, we'd probably be forced to start a rookie without competition or the benefit of development. There's no downside to re-signing Hawley.

This.

I still think that the team should draft a guy.


+1. It's still a position of weakness but I'm not sure why people are so disappointed. It's not better to have no one. We certainly didn't get worse today.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:38 pm

BucJordan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:This.

I still think that the team should draft a guy.


+1. It's still a position of weakness but I'm not sure why people are so disappointed. It's not better to have no one. We certainly didn't get worse today.


There's something to be said for an impetus to improve, which is what we were faced with. Now we're going to spend another year with a horrid center - a year older than his last horrid year - with Jason Licht being apparently satisfied because he's a known commodity. A terrible known commodity.

And yeah, maybe something happens on draft day, but the fact we brought back Evan Smith and now Joe Hawley on a two-year hitch suggests it probably won't. OBP is most likely smacking it's hands together about the center position right now, and we get treated to another year of watching Hawley watch the clouds on snap after snap, or worse, running into the pile five seconds to late to show what a "tough guy" he is.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Nano » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:04 pm

Chris Baker is recruiting Ricky Jean Francois to come here.


Ricky Jean Francois also owns 25 Dunkin' Donuts, and wants to build more



Win-win for the Bucs, and the Tampa Bay area
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby BucJordan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:26 pm

MJW wrote:
There's something to be said for an impetus to improve, which is what we were faced with. Now we're going to spend another year with a horrid center - a year older than his last horrid year - with Jason Licht being apparently satisfied because he's a known commodity. A terrible known commodity.

And yeah, maybe something happens on draft day, but the fact we brought back Evan Smith and now Joe Hawley on a two-year hitch suggests it probably won't. OBP is most likely smacking it's hands together about the center position right now, and we get treated to another year of watching Hawley watch the clouds on snap after snap, or worse, running into the pile five seconds to late to show what a "tough guy" he is.


Seems like an awful lot of assumptions in that post and for the record I hope you're wrong.

Smith can back up all three interior spots so I have no problem with him sticking for now. To me, keeping Hawley gives us options and makes is less predictable. If we go into draft day with Evan Smith as our only center it forces our hand and shows the entire league we will be targeting a center. Now, we have options if there's no value at that position when we pick.

I pretty much see this like I see the Conte and Wilcox signings. Does it mean we won't draft a safety? Of course not. But this team (like every team) has several weak spots and you can't expect to fix all of them in one offseason. And we can't afford to enter the draft knowing we need starters at multiple positions. Let's just maximize the talent we can acquire and let competition take over from there.

Hell, we won 9 games last year and replaced Akeem Spence with Chris Baker and Cecil Shorts with DeSean Jackson. It's hard to complain about FA from my point of view.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:24 pm

BucJordan wrote:
MJW wrote:
There's something to be said for an impetus to improve, which is what we were faced with. Now we're going to spend another year with a horrid center - a year older than his last horrid year - with Jason Licht being apparently satisfied because he's a known commodity. A terrible known commodity.

And yeah, maybe something happens on draft day, but the fact we brought back Evan Smith and now Joe Hawley on a two-year hitch suggests it probably won't. OBP is most likely smacking it's hands together about the center position right now, and we get treated to another year of watching Hawley watch the clouds on snap after snap, or worse, running into the pile five seconds to late to show what a "tough guy" he is.


Seems like an awful lot of assumptions in that post and for the record I hope you're wrong.

Smith can back up all three interior spots so I have no problem with him sticking for now. To me, keeping Hawley gives us options and makes is less predictable. If we go into draft day with Evan Smith as our only center it forces our hand and shows the entire league we will be targeting a center. Now, we have options if there's no value at that position when we pick.

I pretty much see this like I see the Conte and Wilcox signings. Does it mean we won't draft a safety? Of course not. But this team (like every team) has several weak spots and you can't expect to fix all of them in one offseason. And we can't afford to enter the draft knowing we need starters at multiple positions. Let's just maximize the talent we can acquire and let competition take over from there.

Hell, we won 9 games last year and replaced Akeem Spence with Chris Baker and Cecil Shorts with DeSean Jackson. It's hard to complain about FA from my point of view.


To be fair, you're right - like most every post in March, mine was chalk-full of assumptions. I acknowledge this.

That said, we re-signed our starting center and retained our starting center's backup when we could have cut bait on his lousy deal altogether. That doesn't really reek of me of a desire to upgrade, or even experiment. That says to me, "We aren't going to address this in 2017."

In the abstract, that attitude isn't a bad one. It's a lousy draft for centers and you can never fix everything in one offseason. The part I get stuck on is that Joe Hawley is just. so. bad. He's BAD. Flat out. He's bad at blocking defenders. I can't shake the feeling it wouldn't have been hard to find someone 5 years younger and 1/5th the cost who would have not only not been worse than Hawley, but might have improved in time. I honestly feel the same way I did when we gave Michael Clayton an extension. Yeah, unlike M-80, Hawley might be a great dude and a team leader. But we were out from under a BAD player and we brought him back because we knew him.

Well, whatever. It's done. On to the next adventure.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:47 pm

Signing Joe Hawley and Evan Smith all but guarantees we aren't targeting a center. Hawley can't play anything but center so far as I know, and with Smith on the roster we would have no need of Hawley as a backup. For the same reasons, it would also imply that we aren't intending to draft a guard and move Marpet to center.

Then again, maybe resigning Hawley is just insurance in case they don't get a guy they like in the draft and intend to just cut him and eat the contract if they do.

In other news, I just saw that ASJ has been suspended for drug use. Shocking, I know.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:02 am

Naismith wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Somebody have the PFF numbers on Hawley so I can quantify what a shitty player he is?


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We'll Paradis is a RFA next year so....
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:49 am

mdb1958 wrote:Two things.

The first is the chart shows you can win a superbowl with a center with a bad grade.

2nd, has anyone put out the charts for the ten yard splits yet?



http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017-nfl-s ... s-tracker/
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby BucJordan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:55 am

terrytate wrote:Then again, maybe resigning Hawley is just insurance in case they don't get a guy they like in the draft and intend to just cut him and eat the contract if they do.


This is the way I see it. It's not like we signed him to an extension midseason or even at the opening bell of free agency. Dunno though, maybe I'm just an optimist. Have we seen the contract numbers come out?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:57 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:This.

I still think that the team should draft a guy.


I think we should too. But now if we don't it won't be the end of the world. Had we let Hawley walk and didn't draft a center, it would've been the end of the world. That's the difference between the Mark Dominik and Jason Licht. Dom never left himself options in the draft. Licht does.

I'm right there with you.

To Litch's credit, he learns from his mistakes. He doesn't seem to do the same thing over and over.

But one thing I have noticed for two offseasons now is that he wants to have as complete a roster as possible going into the draft. And that's an excellent strategy from where I'm sitting.

He can literally draft for depth now.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:01 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I think we should too. But now if we don't it won't be the end of the world. Had we let Hawley walk and didn't draft a center, it would've been the end of the world. That's the difference between the Mark Dominik and Jason Licht. Dom never left himself options in the draft. Licht does.

I'm right there with you.

To Litch's credit, he learns from his mistakes. He doesn't seem to do the same thing over and over.

But one thing I have noticed for two offseasons now is that he wants to have as complete a roster as possible going into the draft. And that's an excellent strategy from where I'm sitting.

He can literally draft for depth now.


I love the strategy. It allows us to stay true to the board as Dom always spoke of and it allows the guys we draft a chance to actually earn their playing time. Had Dom been our GM, VH3 & Spence would've both been immediate starters going into TC. Ryan Smith is likely NB. Now there's no pressure come draft time to reach and eliminate positions from the board.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:13 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'm right there with you.

To Litch's credit, he learns from his mistakes. He doesn't seem to do the same thing over and over.

But one thing I have noticed for two offseasons now is that he wants to have as complete a roster as possible going into the draft. And that's an excellent strategy from where I'm sitting.

He can literally draft for depth now.


I love the strategy. It allows us to stay true to the board as Dom always spoke of and it allows the guys we draft a chance to actually earn their playing time. Had Dom been our GM, VH3 & Spence would've both been immediate starters going into TC. Ryan Smith is likely NB. Now there's no pressure come draft time to reach and eliminate positions from the board.

The byproduct is that he's going to be completely unpredictable in the draft.

I have no idea what he's going to do at this point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Nano » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:56 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'm right there with you.

To Litch's credit, he learns from his mistakes. He doesn't seem to do the same thing over and over.

But one thing I have noticed for two offseasons now is that he wants to have as complete a roster as possible going into the draft. And that's an excellent strategy from where I'm sitting.

He can literally draft for depth now.


I love the strategy. It allows us to stay true to the board as Dom always spoke of and it allows the guys we draft a chance to actually earn their playing time. Had Dom been our GM, VH3 & Spence would've both been immediate starters going into TC. Ryan Smith is likely NB. Now there's no pressure come draft time to reach and eliminate positions from the board.

Cool thing with the way we've built the roster, anyone we draft WILL have to fight for playing time. Hell, outside of us lucking into one of the drafts big talents at an area of need(Garett, Thomas, Adams, Hooker, and Fournette), our draft picks probably won't see major playing time unless they seriously earn it.

And on that point, that's what make me excited about Koetter too. Rookie or vet, he won't play you just to play you if you don't earn it.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Swashy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:10 am

lmfao looks like we're gonna continue to cut corners at o-line then. It's almost like Licht thinks, "We drafted Smith, Marpet and signed Sweezy. WE. ARE. GOOD!" maybe some truth to his prior statements. I'm not bagging the guy but we really need some more new blood around here. At least a new RT if we can get one because in other news: Gosder Cherilus announced his retirement. So thank God for that.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:23 am

Keep in mind Licht is a former olineman who is now a GM. We also have one of the best oline coaches in the game. I will trust their assessments.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:57 am

real bucs fan wrote:Keep in mind Licht is a former olineman who is now a GM. We also have one of the best oline coaches in the game. I will trust their assessments.




Here is one for him to look at.

121 NEW Aviante Collins TCU OG 6'4" 295 OT -311


My big question though, is why the big drop off for tackle - because he's the quickest lineman in the draft.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Swashy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:06 am

real bucs fan wrote:Keep in mind Licht is a former olineman who is now a GM. We also have one of the best oline coaches in the game. I will trust their assessments.


Not saying to not trust Licht but Matt Millen was an o-lineman and I wouldn't trust his assessment on a damn thing.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:24 am

Swashy wrote:Matt Millen was an o-lineman


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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby deltbucs » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:38 am

Swashy wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Keep in mind Licht is a former olineman who is now a GM. We also have one of the best oline coaches in the game. I will trust their assessments.


Not saying to not trust Licht but Matt Millen was an o-lineman and I wouldn't trust his assessment on a damn thing.

And Licht sure nailed it with Anthony Collins
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:52 am

Obi ran the fastest ten yard split, followed by Willis.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby LoRdNlKoN » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:21 pm

From Jenna on ESPN:

I'm told that the Bucs met with and worked out WVU center Tyler Orlosky on Monday. 6-foot-3, 298 pounds. Three-year starter. Played both guard and center. Bucs value versatility with their offensive linemen, so that's a plus.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2017 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:29 pm

LoRdNlKoN wrote:From Jenna on ESPN:

I'm told that the Bucs met with and worked out WVU center Tyler Orlosky on Monday. 6-foot-3, 298 pounds. Three-year starter. Played both guard and center. Bucs value versatility with their offensive linemen, so that's a plus.


He'd make sense in the 3rd.
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