Thank you Jameis Winston

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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Cheb » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:28 am

mdb1958 wrote:
MJW wrote:
I want to see him go through his progressions.



Can I have a write up on "game planning with progressions". Somewhere along the line Winston's internal clock has to say "4 seconds and I still got the ball, something bad is going to happen".


Every offense teaches their progressions differently, based on gameplan, presnap alignments, postsnap coverage, drop depth, blitzes and hot reads, and indeed how your offense defines who is open. Sometimes, if an offense gets a certain look, they abandon the progression entirely and go with a certain predetermined call, most commonly on smoke routes.

Without being in their meetings, it would be guesswork. You could say something like "typically, the progression on this concept versus this coverage is A, B, then C," but you could be miles away from the truth.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Doctor » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:51 am

I'd love to see Winston just look off a safety or hold a safety with his eyes. That's all I want. To see Nate up on the board monday morning on GMFB saying "And look how Winston holds the safety with his eyes"...

I don't think Winton locks into his primary option as much as that he locks into his presnap read. He see's something presnap and says "that should be there".... and then will look that way waiting for what he thought to be there to be there. He needs to learn that he's not married to a presnap read and that, dun dun dun, defenses disguise coverages.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Caradoc » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:43 pm

I'd be pleased if he ever learned to pump fake. 3 years in and he 's still raw AF
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Doctor » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:09 pm

Indeed. But to be fair he only played two years of college as well. There's a reason (I forget who) said every college QB should play 4 years. There's a lot that gets worked out there. Granted, I'd rather it get worked out here, but we have to be patient if that's the case. Despite all his flaws, for which there are many, he's still 23) and has so much upside and time to these things out.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:25 pm

Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:30 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


Agreed.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Doctor » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:02 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


Agreed.

Holy hell, it's a crazy day when Bootz is the one preaching reason.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby RedLeader » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:40 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


Preach.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:25 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


You're strongly implying that sometimes he looks off defenders, or goes through his progressions, and sometimes he does not. He is entirely consistent in NOT doing these things. What changes week to week are the stats, which must be exciting for a fantasy football fan but doesn't mean much to the rest of us. He's no closer to mastering the little things a QB needs to do to BE consistent than he was when he was walking on stage in Chicago. That's the problem. It's not that he's inconsistent in OUTCOME, like the guys you named. It's that the PROCESS is not improving.

I can go slower if you're playing Madden right now. I know this is a tough concept - process versus outcome. Dumb people talk about outcome.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby sanka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:34 am

I love maryjane ..u can always count on her :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby sanka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:41 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


The only consistent QB in the last 6 years in Russell Wilson....in terms of year to year...The guy has never missed the playoffs..He finally deserves the MVP!
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:43 am

sanka wrote:I love maryjane ..u can always count on her :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Congrats, Sanka, on contributing to science. Years go by and you continue to disprove a major theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby sanka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:47 am

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:I love maryjane ..u can always count on her :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Congrats, Sanka, on contributing to science. Years go by and you continue to disprove a major theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Whatever you posted, back at you ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:01 am

sanka wrote:
MJW wrote:
Congrats, Sanka, on contributing to science. Years go by and you continue to disprove a major theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

You should probably apply theory on yourself ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Did it come down to the wire deciding between this comeback and, "I'm rubber you're glue!" or did you always know this was the right choice? And did you have to pound your scotch before finding the courage to go SEVEN lols deep? I mean, at five you're pushing boundaries. Seven? I feel like I'm watching Thomas Pynchon's process here?
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:02 am

sanka wrote:
MJW wrote:
Congrats, Sanka, on contributing to science. Years go by and you continue to disprove a major theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Whatever you posted, back at you ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Holy ****, then you pull it back and go for another, even less literate version of the same 3rd grade burn.

If you really want to win arguments, boy, you should probably start fighting for the opposite of whatever you believe. You're making Jameis fans look like mongoloids.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby sanka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:12 am

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:Whatever you posted, back at you ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Holy ****, then you pull it back and go for another, even less literate version of the same 3rd grade burn.

If you really want to win arguments, boy, you should probably start fighting for the opposite of whatever you believe. You're making Jameis fans look like mongoloids.

Win what argument girl? Its a message board it is not that serious.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby sanka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:16 am

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:You should probably apply theory on yourself ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Did it come down to the wire deciding between this comeback and, "I'm rubber you're glue!" or did you always know this was the right choice? And did you have to pound your scotch before finding the courage to go SEVEN lols deep? I mean, at five you're pushing boundaries. Seven? I feel like I'm watching Thomas Pynchon's process here?

Yea..i'm kind of fucked up right now (Paul Mason)...care for a glass of wine?
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:24 am

sanka wrote:
MJW wrote:
Did it come down to the wire deciding between this comeback and, "I'm rubber you're glue!" or did you always know this was the right choice? And did you have to pound your scotch before finding the courage to go SEVEN lols deep? I mean, at five you're pushing boundaries. Seven? I feel like I'm watching Thomas Pynchon's process here?

Yea..i'm kind of fucked up right now (Paul Mason)...care for a glass of wine?


On the wagon, but thank you.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:35 am

sanka wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


The only consistent QB in the last 6 years in Russell Wilson....in terms of year to year...The guy has never missed the playoffs..He finally deserves the MVP!


Even he had his inconsistencies. He had the benefit of perhaps the best run game and defense in football his 1st few seasons but when they had to rely on his arm extensively and even when they didn't he was up and down.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:38 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


You're strongly implying that sometimes he looks off defenders, or goes through his progressions, and sometimes he does not. He is entirely consistent in NOT doing these things. What changes week to week are the stats, which must be exciting for a fantasy football fan but doesn't mean much to the rest of us. He's no closer to mastering the little things a QB needs to do to BE consistent than he was when he was walking on stage in Chicago. That's the problem. It's not that he's inconsistent in OUTCOME, like the guys you named. It's that the PROCESS is not improving.

I can go slower if you're playing Madden right now. I know this is a tough concept - process versus outcome. Dumb people talk about outcome.


The process is definitely improving for him. You say otherwise and that's completely fine. He also never walked the stage in Chicago. He was at home in Alabama. But I'm sure you knew that just about as much as you knew what you were seeing from all that A22 footage you watched.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:13 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

Can I have a write up on "game planning with progressions". Somewhere along the line Winston's internal clock has to say "4 seconds and I still got the ball, something bad is going to happen".


Every offense teaches their progressions differently, based on gameplan, presnap alignments, postsnap coverage, drop depth, blitzes and hot reads, and indeed how your offense defines who is open. Sometimes, if an offense gets a certain look, they abandon the progression entirely and go with a certain predetermined call, most commonly on smoke routes.

Without being in their meetings, it would be guesswork. You could say something like "typically, the progression on this concept versus this coverage is A, B, then C," but you could be miles away from the truth.





Thanks Cheb. So it could be Jameis doesnt even bother with his first or 2nd window of opportunity. Our team seems to respond to pressure in a failing way far to often.

We can all try to figure out who is to blame even when a few things happened all at once. Too many plays of everybody not having it right. Failed execution, but Winston still has to come up with a better outcome.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:38 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


This might be the best post you've ever made. Jameis has a lot to work on sure but he's only 23. He's younger than Wentz and Prescott, he's got growing room and he's flashed greatness.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:08 am

Miller4Prez64 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fans just don't understand how hard the QB position is to master and how long it takes QBs to fully reach their potential. Very rarely will you find a QB in this league under 26 who's consistent week to week. Peyton wasn't. Brady wasn't. Rodgers wasnt. Brees wasn't. Ryan wasn't. Big Ben wasn't. Rivers wasn't. Eli wasn't. Luck, Newton, Tannehill, Dalton still aren't and all 4 are at least 28. This idea that a guy is supposed to master the QB position in 2-3 years is casual bullshit fans like to tell themselves because it happens that way on Madden. Wrong.


This might be the best post you've ever made. Jameis has a lot to work on sure but he's only 23. He's younger than Wentz and Prescott, he's got growing room and he's flashed greatness.



Yep, sounds all good --- till you get into the DEER area of his mind.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:13 am

This area

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.buczone.com/download/file.php?avatar=476_1473780084.jpg
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:14 am

We would be way ahead of the game if pics like that never existed.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:15 am

"Lenny said I could pet the rabbits"
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:19 am

You see, George told Lenny he could tend the rabbits and Lenny told Jameis he could pet the rabbits.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:21 am

mdb are you ever aware of the fact that when you hijack a thread with incoherent banter people tend to stop posting in the thread or wait a long time to do so??
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:52 am

So? I lost you?

Does anyone understand what I said. In just a few years the man has done some of the stupidest stuff I have ever witnessed on a football field.
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Re: Thank you Jameis Winston

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:05 am

Bootz2004 wrote:mdb are you ever aware of the fact that when you hijack a thread with incoherent banter people tend to stop posting in the thread or wait a long time to do so??



I messed up your string of attaboys didnt I.
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