Is Winston on this team next year?

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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby NYBF » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:17 pm

People read PMI's posts?

And if you're spitting that easy, your bf must not be happy.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:39 pm

NYBF wrote:People read PMI's posts?

And if you're spitting that easy, your bf must not be happy.


I'll be honest; I totally missed it. The Fake PMI is the anti-LavanteDavid. Instead of a wall of text; it is triple and quadruple spacing after each poorly thought out & constructed sentence.


Patrick McMullet wrote:Blah Blah Blah MrMcKay.




Blah Blah Blah I'm a degenerate gambler.




Blah Blah Blah Chucky sucks.








Blah Blah Blah I pretend I workout.






Blah Blah Blah Casuals.





More 'verbal' diarrhea- the high road.












And we move on....... the hitting the return key 7 more times.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Doctor » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:14 pm

PetePierson wrote:Yeah - Mom jokes are very clever.

Almost as slick as when posters claim to spit their food / drink out from reading a post. Hey we got Mom jokes from 4+ decades ago and bulletin board cliches from 2 decades ago.

Very nuanced.

Damn, people been making fun of your mom for 40 years? No wonder you're a curmudgeon.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:21 pm

From ESPN
Just going to leave this here...

If you're the Buccaneers, you can't consider Winston's future while projecting him to improve dramatically long-term. After nearly 2,400 NFL passes, the quarterback you see on Sundays is the guy whom the Bucs should expect going forward. He is going to combine average overall quarterback play with wild swings from week to week and the third-worst era-adjusted interception rate for any quarterback since the merger. Expecting anything else, at this point, is nothing more than hope.


For those that need translation.... They are saying he throws an interception more often than any Quarterback in the history of the current NFL... Just think about that.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:27 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:From ESPN
Just going to leave this here...

If you're the Buccaneers, you can't consider Winston's future while projecting him to improve dramatically long-term. After nearly 2,400 NFL passes, the quarterback you see on Sundays is the guy whom the Bucs should expect going forward. He is going to combine average overall quarterback play with wild swings from week to week and the third-worst era-adjusted interception rate for any quarterback since the merger. Expecting anything else, at this point, is nothing more than hope.


For those that need translation.... They are saying he throws an interception more often than any Quarterback in the history of the current NFL... Just think about that.

Except for the 2 others worse than him.... ;)
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:28 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:From ESPN
Just going to leave this here...

If you're the Buccaneers, you can't consider Winston's future while projecting him to improve dramatically long-term. After nearly 2,400 NFL passes, the quarterback you see on Sundays is the guy whom the Bucs should expect going forward. He is going to combine average overall quarterback play with wild swings from week to week and the third-worst era-adjusted interception rate for any quarterback since the merger. Expecting anything else, at this point, is nothing more than hope.


For those that need translation.... They are saying he throws an interception more often than any Quarterback in the history of the current NFL... Just think about that.


Man, it is most certainly a dark time as a Yucks Fan when you can’t argue with DD.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:41 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:From ESPN
Just going to leave this here...

If you're the Buccaneers, you can't consider Winston's future while projecting him to improve dramatically long-term. After nearly 2,400 NFL passes, the quarterback you see on Sundays is the guy whom the Bucs should expect going forward. He is going to combine average overall quarterback play with wild swings from week to week and the third-worst era-adjusted interception rate for any quarterback since the merger. Expecting anything else, at this point, is nothing more than hope.


For those that need translation.... They are saying he throws an interception more often than any Quarterback in the history of the current NFL... Just think about that.



All the points on turnovers, regardless how many times repeated, are valid.

Again, the key to being a upper class football fan, same as investing and other pursuits, isn't regurgitating over and over the past......

It's being able to use the past as a piece of the pie but drawing your own conclusions as to what we might expect going forward.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:50 pm

Discussions like this I prefer to just keep it close to home. Even most casuals are fairly familiar with their own team.

So instead of reaching all over the NFL for examples, situations from the past and so on I prefer to discuss our team and our sole SB win so most can follow along....


MJW wrote:It's not "anyone but Winston." I've explained this at length, but my thought process is such:

One, the goal is to win Championships. Good so far?

Two, after five years of watching him, I do not believe Jameis Winston will ever possession the consistency, accuracy, or processing ability necessary to win a championship as a starting quarterback in this league.


Winston could never be a Brad Johnson? That was our starting QB when we won it all.

Or better yet he could never be a Trent Dilfer?

Really?

IMO the writer of this statement is lacking any real football acumen or holds some sort of personal agenda if they really believe this.

Carry on.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:14 pm

MJW wrote:It's really simple. Let me help you - there are two valid arguments against what I'm saying here.

One, you can argue that Winston will improve......


Let me stop you there.....

I'm not arguing he will improve, I'm arguing he already has.

Now I realize some only have the ability to read stats from yesterday in this area, not able to watch on field play for a current evaluation so let's not waste a lot of time here.

I will say right now we're 2nd in yardage this year. Our QB has thrown for more yards than Rogers, more than Wilson, more than Brady and so on.

We are 4th in points scored. More than the Seahawks, more than the Patriots, Saints, Cowboys, Rams, GB, Houston and so on.

GOD bless if we improve much more from here.

The irony here is Sapp used to have a saying to the defense - Give us 17 points and we will never lose!!!

Guess what, we've given the defense at least 17 points in every game we've played this year.

Better defense would we be undefeated? Sounds like in Sapp's era we might have been.

Winston and this offense is MORE, plenty MORE than enough to win everything there is to win in the National Football League.


MJW wrote:Two, you can argue that a talented enough supporting cast could "help" Winston be successful.


No, I certainly wouldn't make this argument.... Winston is already successful. Take a stroll through the record books and see for yourself.

The strength of the team is the offense. With a little more help from the defense, a little more consistentcy we've already got the horses on offense.

The problem areas on this team is mediocre ST's, mediocre coaching staff (especially when BA has given Leftwich the reins) and a BAD defense.


MJW wrote:Any other argument amounts to, "I'm scared of what might happen if he leaves." Which is not logical or valid.


I agree here. I said this recently with VH leaving.

Just because someone leaves and performs well/better at the next stop does not mean we made the wrong move.

The situation with Winston isn't the same, he's already playing to historic levels inside the Buc organization.

I'd expect a 25 year Pro-Bowl QB with 5 years of playing experience to play well at the next stop.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:22 pm

6 TDs / 8 INTs the last 4 games.

#Improvement

#Exciting
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:39 pm

I got to run, let me close with this. Again, I'm not suggesting we make Winston highest paid player in the league.

All I'm saying is he's done enough that we need to consider risk/reward and execute due diligence. This move/non-move is huge on what lies ahead.

IMO he's played himself into a position we need to seriously sit down and negotiate what the terms are of another contract.

I get the turnover thing, I've been saying that for years. I've come off it a little bit because in the first year under BA I see improvement in this area.....

I see him throw that Brady thing at someone's feet when in trouble. I see him give up on 3rd and 17, throwing it 3 rows in the stands.

I see him getting away from hero ball. HE GIVES UP!! He's not trying to win the game on every drive. That's huge!

And BTW if you don't think an improving defense makes a difference you're a fing idiot.

If you know your defense is going to give up a ton of points and you want to win, it's EASY to start trying to do too much. It's easy to press.

Only in BucVille can we be at or near the top in several offensive categories but hone in on the QB that is having a historic season under center.

My bigger concern right now is the defense. Can we sustain what we're starting to see? I feel fine about the offense, more than fine.

Hilarious when you consider what Chuck did on offense and compare that to what we're doing this year.

We're HUMILIATING what Chuck did, yet somehow he's a genius and we want to run a 25 year old Pro-Bowl QB out of town because of his past turnovers.

Because of his past we shouldn't entertain the idea of keeping AT ANY PRICE according to the casuals here. Really?

Ok, let's talk about the past:

NFL Pro Bowl
Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
PFWA All-Rookie Team
BCS national champion
Heisman Trophy
Walter Camp Award
Manning Award
Davey O'Brien Award
AP College Player of the Year
Sporting News College Player of the Year
ACC Player of the Year
ACC Rookie of the Year
ACC Offensive Rookie of the Year
Consensus All-American
USA Today High School All-American
Archie Griffin Award
BCS National Championship
BCS National Championship Offensive MVP
Orange Bowl champion
Consensus All-American
2× First-team All-ACC
ACC Offensive Player of the Year
ACC Athlete of the Year
College Football Performance National Freshman of the Year
ACC Championship Game MVP
3× ACC Championship
USA Today High School All-American


I know, I know, the past only counts when it suits our agenda.

Yeah he used to throw picks, think he stole a coke in 2012, let's get rid of that MF'er and ride this outstanding defense.

Sigh.

Have a blessed night men.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:42 pm

PetePierson wrote:6 TDs / 8 INTs the last 4 games.

#Improvement

#Exciting



Agreed. Three wins in our last 4 games is GREAT.

And actually even 3 wins in our last 5 games if we throw in an OT loss to Wilson and the Seahawks is pretty good.

Yeah, I can't see any change on this team either.....

I THINK THE BUCS ARE GREAT!!!
Last edited by Patrick McIrish on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby acmillis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:43 pm

That post may be the worst defense of JW...ever. His “past turnovers” were as recent as 4 days ago.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:44 pm

acmillis wrote:That post may be the worst defense of JW...ever. His “past turnovers” were as recent as 4 days ago.



And to date we're 2nd in total yardage....

Can't be more current than that can we?

Rhetorical, we move on.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:46 pm

Of course the WHOOOOSH from my previous post was obvious to almost everyone but interesting when you use their own "logic" against them.....


:lol: :lol: :lol:




LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRINK BUDWEISER!!!
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby acmillis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:47 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
acmillis wrote:That post may be the worst defense of JW...ever. His “past turnovers” were as recent as 4 days ago.



And to date we're 2nd in total yardage....

Can't be more current than that can we?

Rhetorical, we move on.

Yardage wins games?
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:48 pm

acmillis wrote:
Patrick McIrish wrote:

And to date we're 2nd in total yardage....

Can't be more current than that can we?

Rhetorical, we move on.

Yardage wins games?



Good enough to win 3 of our last 4.

But no, yardage doesn't win games, lot of punting and total futility on offense is what wins.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Pretty good at scoring points too.....

I know, I know, moving the ball and scoring points has nothing to do with winning.

Wow, just wow man,
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby acmillis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:51 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
acmillis wrote:Yardage wins games?



Good enough to win 3 of our last 4.

But no, yardage doesn't win games, lot of punting and total futility on offense is what wins.

Hard to punt when our qb hands the opposition the ball
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:52 pm

acmillis wrote:
Patrick McIrish wrote:

Good enough to win 3 of our last 4.

But no, yardage doesn't win games, lot of punting and total futility on offense is what wins.

Hard to punt when our qb hands the opposition the ball



Surrender noted.

Good night ladies.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby acmillis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:54 pm

Nice chat, Bootz
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:17 pm

acmillis wrote:
Patrick McIrish wrote:

Good enough to win 3 of our last 4.

But no, yardage doesn't win games, lot of punting and total futility on offense is what wins.

Hard to punt when our qb hands the opposition the ball


What about when our QB helps lead scoring drives? Which happens more than the turnovers do. Does that not matter?
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby BacksidePursuit » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:23 pm

Yeah he used to throw picks

Never again though
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby MJW » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:26 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:Discussions like this I prefer to just keep it close to home. Even most casuals are fairly familiar with their own team.

So instead of reaching all over the NFL for examples, situations from the past and so on I prefer to discuss our team and our sole SB win so most can follow along....


MJW wrote:It's not "anyone but Winston." I've explained this at length, but my thought process is such:

One, the goal is to win Championships. Good so far?

Two, after five years of watching him, I do not believe Jameis Winston will ever possession the consistency, accuracy, or processing ability necessary to win a championship as a starting quarterback in this league.


Winston could never be a Brad Johnson? That was our starting QB when we won it all.

Or better yet he could never be a Trent Dilfer?

Really?

IMO the writer of this statement is lacking any real football acumen or holds some sort of personal agenda if they really believe this.

Carry on.


Three things:

One, you're fishing. I don't mind, but be less conspicuous about it.

Two, no, he couldn't be Brad Johnson. Are you kidding me? Brad Johnson was one of the most cerebral and accurate QBs in the league. He was the perfect compliment to a great defense. The year you're referring to, Brad Johnson threw 6 interceptions. You're asking me if Jameis can protect the football and not do stupid ****? Because that was Brad's job.

Three, yes, you know what, he COULD be Trent Dilfer. There's just three steps!

- We need to give him one of the greatest defenses in NFL history.
- We need to give him one of the very best running games in the league.
- He needs to play the season for $1 million, which is what Dilfer got from the Ravens that year. That way, we can afford to load up our roster. But that's not fair - we'll adjust it for inflation. Do you know, is he willing to compete for his job next year for $2 million?

So, yeah. Let me know how that works out.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:40 am

If it keeps up, Jerry is going to get rid of Dak or? Winning can get you to accept things, poor ole Dak's team gives him 2 turnovers and he doesnt have any himself, his numbers are not terrible, but hey, another loss. You just gotta know Jerry is steaming, LOL, lets legalize pot.

It makes us smarter and do great things/choices in life.

It is kind of crazy to think that in-spite of all the mistakes and turnovers we are just 10 points from being the #2 scoring team in the league and in my mind that includes the many moments where Winston just didnt look like he had an answer in situations.

I think not having an answer did contribute to his mistakes and in a way are even a bigger thing he needs to improve on.


Anyways, lastly, what would Dak look like if another 80 to 100 points were put on his defense.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby sonofg » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:52 am

Patrick McIrish wrote:I got to run, let me close with this. Again, I'm not suggesting we make Winston highest paid player in the league.

All I'm saying is he's done enough that we need to consider risk/reward and execute due diligence. This move/non-move is huge on what lies ahead.

IMO he's played himself into a position we need to seriously sit down and negotiate what the terms are of another contract.

I get the turnover thing, I've been saying that for years. I've come off it a little bit because in the first year under BA I see improvement in this area.....

I see him throw that Brady thing at someone's feet when in trouble. I see him give up on 3rd and 17, throwing it 3 rows in the stands.

I see him getting away from hero ball. HE GIVES UP!! He's not trying to win the game on every drive. That's huge!

And BTW if you don't think an improving defense makes a difference you're a fing idiot.

If you know your defense is going to give up a ton of points and you want to win, it's EASY to start trying to do too much. It's easy to press.

Only in BucVille can we be at or near the top in several offensive categories but hone in on the QB that is having a historic season under center.

My bigger concern right now is the defense. Can we sustain what we're starting to see? I feel fine about the offense, more than fine.

Hilarious when you consider what Chuck did on offense and compare that to what we're doing this year.

We're HUMILIATING what Chuck did, yet somehow he's a genius and we want to run a 25 year old Pro-Bowl QB out of town because of his past turnovers.

Because of his past we shouldn't entertain the idea of keeping AT ANY PRICE according to the casuals here. Really?

Ok, let's talk about the past:

NFL Pro Bowl
Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
PFWA All-Rookie Team
BCS national champion
Heisman Trophy
Walter Camp Award
Manning Award
Davey O'Brien Award
AP College Player of the Year
Sporting News College Player of the Year
ACC Player of the Year
ACC Rookie of the Year
ACC Offensive Rookie of the Year
Consensus All-American
USA Today High School All-American
Archie Griffin Award
BCS National Championship
BCS National Championship Offensive MVP
Orange Bowl champion
Consensus All-American
2× First-team All-ACC
ACC Offensive Player of the Year
ACC Athlete of the Year
College Football Performance National Freshman of the Year
ACC Championship Game MVP
3× ACC Championship
USA Today High School All-American


I know, I know, the past only counts when it suits our agenda.

Yeah he used to throw picks, think he stole a coke in 2012, let's get rid of that MF'er and ride this outstanding defense.

Sigh.

Have a blessed night men.



There are arguments for both keeping and moving on from Winston, but nowhere in that discussion should "pro bowler" be mentioned like it has any meaning what so ever.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Jameis Winston, named Monday as a replacement, was the eighth player at his position to be either invited or announced in addition to the six quarterbacks voted in.

(https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/pos ... in-history)

That means he was the 14th QB. People have to stop referencing his Pro Bowl appearance as proof of how good he is. This is too dumb.


Also, just for the fun of it:
SEC All-Freshman Team
Walter Camp Award finalist
Heisman Trophy Winner
Sporting News Player of the Year
Manning Award finalist
Rivals.com National Offensive Player of the Year
Rivals.com SEC Offensive Player of the Year
First-team All-SEC (Associated Press, Coaches, Rivals.com)
Associated Press SEC Offensive Player of the Year
First-team All-American by: Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America, Walter Camp Football Foundation, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, CBS Sports, College Football News, Rivals.com, and Scout.com
Heisman Trophy finalist
SEC Offensive Player of the Week
2008 SEC Championship Game Most Valuable Player
First-team All-SEC (AP, Coaches, Rivals.com)
Heisman Trophy finalist
First-team All-SEC (AP, Coaches, Rivals.com)
Second-team All-American (Walter Camp Foundation)
SEC Offensive Player of the Year
Sports Illustrated College football Player of the Decade



...Tim Tebow


Plenty of college players aren't as good in the pros as they were in college. Why is this so unthinkable when it comes to Winston?
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:29 am

Patrick McIrish wrote:I got to run, let me close with this. Again, I'm not suggesting we make Winston highest paid player in the league.

All I'm saying is he's done enough that we need to consider risk/reward and execute due diligence. This move/non-move is huge on what lies ahead.

IMO he's played himself into a position we need to seriously sit down and negotiate what the terms are of another contract.

I get the turnover thing, I've been saying that for years. I've come off it a little bit because in the first year under BA I see improvement in this area.....

I see him throw that Brady thing at someone's feet when in trouble. I see him give up on 3rd and 17, throwing it 3 rows in the stands.

I see him getting away from hero ball. HE GIVES UP!! He's not trying to win the game on every drive. That's huge!

And BTW if you don't think an improving defense makes a difference you're a fing idiot.

If you know your defense is going to give up a ton of points and you want to win, it's EASY to start trying to do too much. It's easy to press.

Only in BucVille can we be at or near the top in several offensive categories but hone in on the QB that is having a historic season under center.

My bigger concern right now is the defense. Can we sustain what we're starting to see? I feel fine about the offense, more than fine.

Hilarious when you consider what Chuck did on offense and compare that to what we're doing this year.

We're HUMILIATING what Chuck did, yet somehow he's a genius and we want to run a 25 year old Pro-Bowl QB out of town because of his past turnovers.

Because of his past we shouldn't entertain the idea of keeping AT ANY PRICE according to the casuals here. Really?

Ok, let's talk about the past:

NFL Pro Bowl
Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
PFWA All-Rookie Team
BCS national champion
Heisman Trophy
Walter Camp Award
Manning Award
Davey O'Brien Award
AP College Player of the Year
Sporting News College Player of the Year
ACC Player of the Year
ACC Rookie of the Year
ACC Offensive Rookie of the Year
Consensus All-American
USA Today High School All-American
Archie Griffin Award
BCS National Championship
BCS National Championship Offensive MVP
Orange Bowl champion
Consensus All-American
2× First-team All-ACC
ACC Offensive Player of the Year
ACC Athlete of the Year
College Football Performance National Freshman of the Year
ACC Championship Game MVP
3× ACC Championship
USA Today High School All-American


I know, I know, the past only counts when it suits our agenda.

Yeah he used to throw picks, think he stole a coke in 2012, let's get rid of that MF'er and ride this outstanding defense.

Sigh.

Have a blessed night men.


His past turn overs? He turns the ball over more now than he has done in the past.


He was not that great in the NCAA... had one good season... He has had 6 progressively bad seasons since.

Lets cut all the nonsense NCAA awards out... they are pointless.

You are left with

NFL Pro Bowl
Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year


for 5 seasons in the league.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby acmillis » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:50 am

GrownishBF wrote:
acmillis wrote:Hard to punt when our qb hands the opposition the ball


What about when our QB helps lead scoring drives? Which happens more than the turnovers do. Does that not matter?

The stance of, "he's leading scoring drives more often than he's turning it over" is pathetic. Of course that matters, but name me the QBs who turn it over more than they score...that's right, NOBODY! Not a single qb turns it over more than they score, we just happen to have a qb who turns it over more than any other qb in the league.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:57 am

acmillis wrote:
GrownishBF wrote:
What about when our QB helps lead scoring drives? Which happens more than the turnovers do. Does that not matter?

The stance of, "he's leading scoring drives more often than he's turning it over" is pathetic. Of course that matters, but name me the QBs who turn it over more than they score...that's right, NOBODY! Not a single qb turns it over more than they score, we just happen to have a qb who turns it over more than any other qb in the league.


Somehow he's leading the 4th best scoring attack in the league. We know the turnovers aren't good but ignoring the results doesn't make your argument any more valid.

At any rate I was responding to your post saying it's hard to punt when our QB hands the opposition the ball. The more appropriate response should've been it's hard to punt when our QB is leading TD drives.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:58 am

NYBF wrote:
GrownishBF wrote:
Fitzpatrick? I'm confused. Fitzpatrick himself is a turnover machine. He doesn't win many games either, lost his last 5 startshere last season. But you think he's a real QB? I don't understand.


3.3% INT rate vs 4.3% INT rate. Who's the turnover machine?


I just looked up the 4.3% INT Rate, Winston is leading the league by almost 100 bps. But he is making it up by having the 2nd worst Passing % in the league.

Maybe he will get another award to add to Fake McMullet's distinguished list of accomplishments?

#Exciting
Last edited by PetePierson on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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