Jw suspended

Team Discussions regarding games, players, coaches, or anything else related to Buccaneer Football.
post

Re: Jw suspended

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:10 am

Super K wrote:Our D is gonna have to ball out and we'll need a running game....

Only chance we've got..


That would still be true regardless of who was playing QB.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 11751
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 483 times
Been thanked: 507 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby mightyleemoon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:14 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:2-1 last season with Fitz as a starter, That doesn't include him getting us back in the Cards game where he subbed in for Winston. He's certainly a capable NFL QB that can win games.

If the defensive upgrades and Oline perform as advertised we have the talent to play with any team w/ Fitz at QB. Not saying we'll win every game, but it's silly to say the season is lost b/c we'll have Fitz instead of Winston for 3 games in September.

If the Eagles can win a Super Bowl w/ Nick Foles, the Bucs can win a game or two w/ Fitzmagic.


agreed. This team is getting enough talent at this point that having a volvo station wagon as a QB might not even be a that bad of a thing


But, does it? Really? Year after year we're told about the talent on this team. We see the training camp talent. We see the potential. We read about it constantly.

And then September rolls around and, whaddya know, yet another disappointing year gets underway.

*sigh*

I mean, I agree with you. I believe, again, that this team has the talent. however, it's just been pummeled into my brain at this point that talent doesn't necessarily directly effect the number in the W column.
User avatar
mightyleemoon
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:35 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Super K » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:15 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Super K wrote:Our D is gonna have to ball out and we'll need a running game....

Only chance we've got..


That would still be true regardless of who was playing QB.


Very true...

Although I think they could "slip" a bit with JW behind center as in we could win a one of those if they became a "shoot out" with Jameis at QB....
User avatar
Super K
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 189 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:31 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
agreed. This team is getting enough talent at this point that having a volvo station wagon as a QB might not even be a that bad of a thing


But, does it? Really? Year after year we're told about the talent on this team. We see the training camp talent. We see the potential. We read about it constantly.

And then September rolls around and, whaddya know, yet another disappointing year gets underway.

*sigh*

I mean, I agree with you. I believe, again, that this team has the talent. however, it's just been pummeled into my brain at this point that talent doesn't necessarily directly effect the number in the W column.


no yeah, I completely agree with you.... we've done a remarkable job of not meeting on paper expectations over the past decade.

There's gotta be SOME regression to the mean, right? I mean how many years straight can we have talent that doesn't perform as they have in the past!?

There are some things that are relatively "unprecedented" in comparison with our teams of the last decade or so...

- This year's d-line has 3/4 guys that are studs. Gerald and JPP are proven NFL stars. Vita being 3rd best on that d-line is deal for him. There's no red flags about Vita that say he shouldn't be a star. I mean look at the history of the past high d-line draft picks we've had. Noah had red flags. Clayborn had the Palsy thing. Bowers had the knee thing. Price had the hip thing. All these guys were risks. Vita has zero. And he's our 3rd best guy on that line. That's ideal.

- Which then plays into the fact that Kwon and Lavonte will be playing behind the best d-line of their entire careers. That changes everything. Kwon had a surprisingly good rookie year, a down sophmore year playing behind that absolute clownshow d-line - the dude seems locked in and I expect him to be back at the top of his game after the disappointment of last year. Beckwith is coming off a great rookie year and David, behind this line, should get back to his all pro form.

- We've got tons of depth in our secondary heading into this year. Evans is building on a very strong rookie year. Grimes is grimes. C Davis is the physical outside guy we need. Our nickel is a 1st rounder.

- When was the last time we had this much talent in our pass catchers? Ever?? TE's included? Djax is better with a consistent thrower like Fitz. Evans is Evans. OJ had a great rookie year. Brate just got paid and will be Brate again. Godwin deserves to be on the field. So does Hump. We're stocked there.

- Our O-line now not only has upside, but experience playing together. Jensen sounds like he's the nasty C we've needed. He's certainly better than EDS. Big upgrade over recent years.

- And we've now got a home-run capable back, which we haven't had in YEARS. Can't count how many times doug got chased down at the 10-20 yd line


I mean, yeah this is ALL paper. but a little bit of boring, consistent, ball distributer almost sounds better for this team than the hero ball dude. We just need to get the ball in their hands. I don't think we've ever had this much talent at the skill positions and our defense, with the heavy investment at the D-line should actually be able to put pressure on the opposing QB and make it so we dont HAVE to play hero ball every game.


I hate the jameis thing. I think he's the better QB for the long run. But I honestly don't feel like Fitz is THAT huge of a drop off with THIS make up of THIS team
User avatar
beardmcdoug
 
Posts: 2655
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:30 pm
Has thanked: 305 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Nano » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:05 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
agreed. This team is getting enough talent at this point that having a volvo station wagon as a QB might not even be a that bad of a thing


But, does it? Really? Year after year we're told about the talent on this team. We see the training camp talent. We see the potential. We read about it constantly.

And then September rolls around and, whaddya know, yet another disappointing year gets underway.

*sigh*

I mean, I agree with you. I believe, again, that this team has the talent. however, it's just been pummeled into my brain at this point that talent doesn't necessarily directly effect the number in the W column.

Right now the Bucs do have the talent, they just don't have the coaching.
User avatar
Nano
 
Posts: 7104
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:30 pm
Location: Somewhere above Tampa
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 248 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby mightyleemoon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:36 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
mightyleemoon wrote:
But, does it? Really? Year after year we're told about the talent on this team. We see the training camp talent. We see the potential. We read about it constantly.

And then September rolls around and, whaddya know, yet another disappointing year gets underway.

*sigh*

I mean, I agree with you. I believe, again, that this team has the talent. however, it's just been pummeled into my brain at this point that talent doesn't necessarily directly effect the number in the W column.


no yeah, I completely agree with you.... we've done a remarkable job of not meeting on paper expectations over the past decade.

There's gotta be SOME regression to the mean, right? I mean how many years straight can we have talent that doesn't perform as they have in the past!?

There are some things that are relatively "unprecedented" in comparison with our teams of the last decade or so...

- This year's d-line has 3/4 guys that are studs. Gerald and JPP are proven NFL stars. Vita being 3rd best on that d-line is deal for him. There's no red flags about Vita that say he shouldn't be a star. I mean look at the history of the past high d-line draft picks we've had. Noah had red flags. Clayborn had the Palsy thing. Bowers had the knee thing. Price had the hip thing. All these guys were risks. Vita has zero. And he's our 3rd best guy on that line. That's ideal.

- Which then plays into the fact that Kwon and Lavonte will be playing behind the best d-line of their entire careers. That changes everything. Kwon had a surprisingly good rookie year, a down sophmore year playing behind that absolute clownshow d-line - the dude seems locked in and I expect him to be back at the top of his game after the disappointment of last year. Beckwith is coming off a great rookie year and David, behind this line, should get back to his all pro form.

- We've got tons of depth in our secondary heading into this year. Evans is building on a very strong rookie year. Grimes is grimes. C Davis is the physical outside guy we need. Our nickel is a 1st rounder.

- When was the last time we had this much talent in our pass catchers? Ever?? TE's included? Djax is better with a consistent thrower like Fitz. Evans is Evans. OJ had a great rookie year. Brate just got paid and will be Brate again. Godwin deserves to be on the field. So does Hump. We're stocked there.

- Our O-line now not only has upside, but experience playing together. Jensen sounds like he's the nasty C we've needed. He's certainly better than EDS. Big upgrade over recent years.

- And we've now got a home-run capable back, which we haven't had in YEARS. Can't count how many times doug got chased down at the 10-20 yd line


I mean, yeah this is ALL paper. but a little bit of boring, consistent, ball distributer almost sounds better for this team than the hero ball dude. We just need to get the ball in their hands. I don't think we've ever had this much talent at the skill positions and our defense, with the heavy investment at the D-line should actually be able to put pressure on the opposing QB and make it so we dont HAVE to play hero ball every game.


I hate the jameis thing. I think he's the better QB for the long run. But I honestly don't feel like Fitz is THAT huge of a drop off with THIS make up of THIS team


**** you a little bit for letting the optimism/hype have a little breathing room inside this head of pessimism.
User avatar
mightyleemoon
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:35 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Kress » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:53 pm

Buc You wrote:
Kress wrote: So ask yourself: Would you bet millions of your own money on a Goodell suspension going away?

Probably not, but if I was innocent I'd definitely bet a few weeks of the smaller salary in an attempt to clear my name and then drop it before the time on serving it this season ends and then let everyone know that I was only dropping it "Because it iss clear to me that the league was not going about this process in good faith and in order to spare my team, friends, and family from continuing this fruitless endeavor, I will begrudgingly accept the NFL's decision."

However, if I was guilty and there was enough evidence to support a suspension of this magnitude or larger, I definitely wouldn't poke the bear.



That could be a crap shoot as well. Our schedule is pretty tough up front (at least as much as we can predict these things, which we can't). But let's just say he appeals and we poop the bed with an 0-fer start. By mid season we're in full on suck mode, and Jameis decides to pull the plug and accept his suspension. Begrudgingly or not, it is an acceptance of the suspension.

Does that open him up to getting released? I'm not a cap/contract guy, but it seems to me that A. Tanking team, B. Coaching staff on scalding hot seat and looking at a potential blow up/overhaul, C. Jameis taking suspension, and D. Jameis getting ready to step into a big contract = Send Jameis packing along with the coaches.

This could be more than a paycheck thing for him. It could be a job thing. He needs to start the season and win some games doing it.
Image
User avatar
Kress
 
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:26 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 218 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby MJW » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:05 am

Buc You wrote:
Kress wrote: So ask yourself: Would you bet millions of your own money on a Goodell suspension going away?

Probably not, but if I was innocent I'd definitely bet a few weeks of the smaller salary in an attempt to clear my name and then drop it before the time on serving it this season ends and then let everyone know that I was only dropping it "Because it iss clear to me that the league was not going about this process in good faith and in order to spare my team, friends, and family from continuing this fruitless endeavor, I will begrudgingly accept the NFL's decision."

However, if I was guilty and there was enough evidence to support a suspension of this magnitude or larger, I definitely wouldn't poke the bear.


Here's the thing:

Jameis has no more way of proving his innocence than, barring some camera footage we don't know about, the driver can prove he did what she says he did.

Such a battle would simply be a PR campaign against the league. And although we don't appreciate this, most folks don't like Jameis Winston. He's viewed as a clown by some and a criminal by others. Very few are aware of (or care) about his community efforts in Tampa, or his reputation as a teammate.

Drawing this out would simply allow the league to land body-blows regarding his past indiscretions. It also doesn't help that he and Darby got caught in a lie, and the 3rd man in the car was an indicted (now convicted) rapist.

Even if Jameis is 100% innocent, he's doing the smart thing here.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 8310
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby The Outsider » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:11 am

MJW wrote:
Buc You wrote:Probably not, but if I was innocent I'd definitely bet a few weeks of the smaller salary in an attempt to clear my name and then drop it before the time on serving it this season ends and then let everyone know that I was only dropping it "Because it iss clear to me that the league was not going about this process in good faith and in order to spare my team, friends, and family from continuing this fruitless endeavor, I will begrudgingly accept the NFL's decision."

However, if I was guilty and there was enough evidence to support a suspension of this magnitude or larger, I definitely wouldn't poke the bear.


Here's the thing:

Jameis has no more way of proving his innocence than, barring some camera footage we don't know about, the driver can prove he did what she says he did.

Such a battle would simply be a PR campaign against the league. And although we don't appreciate this, most folks don't like Jameis Winston. He's viewed as a clown by some and a criminal by others. Very few are aware of (or care) about his community efforts in Tampa, or his reputation as a teammate.

Drawing this out would simply allow the league to land body-blows regarding his past indiscretions. It also doesn't help that he and Darby got caught in a lie, and the 3rd man in the car was an indicted (now convicted) rapist.

Even if Jameis is 100% innocent, he's doing the smart thing here.



How did he and Darby get caught in a lie? Because the convicted rapist said something that isn't consistent with their story? Because dude's in prison will never, ever lie about something that could get them more time.
Image
User avatar
The Outsider
 
Posts: 3791
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:02 pm
Location: Gettin' all up in ya
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby BucaRican » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:24 am

The Outsider wrote:
MJW wrote:
Here's the thing:

Jameis has no more way of proving his innocence than, barring some camera footage we don't know about, the driver can prove he did what she says he did.

Such a battle would simply be a PR campaign against the league. And although we don't appreciate this, most folks don't like Jameis Winston. He's viewed as a clown by some and a criminal by others. Very few are aware of (or care) about his community efforts in Tampa, or his reputation as a teammate.

Drawing this out would simply allow the league to land body-blows regarding his past indiscretions. It also doesn't help that he and Darby got caught in a lie, and the 3rd man in the car was an indicted (now convicted) rapist.

Even if Jameis is 100% innocent, he's doing the smart thing here.



How did he and Darby get caught in a lie? Because the convicted rapist said something that isn't consistent with their story? Because dude's in prison will never, ever lie about something that could get them more time.


Hey lets not forget the victims statement, that counts as evidence. So please stop disregarding the victims account. People around here are making it seem as if the victims account somehow doesn't count. As if Jamies account is the truth we have to live by.
Image
BucaRican
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:53 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:31 am

When are we getting the official announcement?
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21965
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby The Outsider » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:45 pm

BucaRican wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

How did he and Darby get caught in a lie? Because the convicted rapist said something that isn't consistent with their story? Because dude's in prison will never, ever lie about something that could get them more time.


Hey lets not forget the victims statement, that counts as evidence. So please stop disregarding the victims account. People around here are making it seem as if the victims account somehow doesn't count. As if Jamies account is the truth we have to live by.


I don't discount the alleged victim's statement. But at this point, again, it's he said-she said stuff. Ultimately, there is no evidence that Winston committed a crime other than a victim statement and corroboration from a man with extremely poor character with every reason to testify falsely. Which is never enough to even bring a case to trial. On top of that Winston has his own witness corroborating his side of the story. One that is unbelievably more credible than Brandon Banks. So like I said, in the other thread this suspension is Goodell meting out arbitrary justice as he does so often.
Image
User avatar
The Outsider
 
Posts: 3791
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:02 pm
Location: Gettin' all up in ya
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby MJW » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:41 pm

The Outsider wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
Hey lets not forget the victims statement, that counts as evidence. So please stop disregarding the victims account. People around here are making it seem as if the victims account somehow doesn't count. As if Jamies account is the truth we have to live by.


I don't discount the alleged victim's statement. But at this point, again, it's he said-she said stuff. Ultimately, there is no evidence that Winston committed a crime other than a victim statement and corroboration from a man with extremely poor character with every reason to testify falsely. Which is never enough to even bring a case to trial. On top of that Winston has his own witness corroborating his side of the story. One that is unbelievably more credible than Brandon Banks. So like I said, in the other thread this suspension is Goodell meting out arbitrary justice as he does so often.


No, there isn't any hard evidence, as I said. There's just another alleged really bad thing from a dude who specializes in being in the middle of them.

BTW, what motivation does Banks have to lie? The driver didn't implicate him in any way. He's not being investigated. From what I can tell, he and the driver (to this point) have absolutely no reason to lie, unlike Winston and Darby, who have every reason.

And if Jameis felt Goodell was being unfair, I doubt he waives his right to appeal.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 8310
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Nano » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:49 pm

That's the thing, neither have a reason to lie...and right now, their story is backed up more than Winston's side. We already know through NFL's electronic evidence(whatever that is) that Darby nor Banks was in the Uber when the incident supposedly happened. In fact, based on the two matching statements of Kate/Banks, Winston was alone in the car with Kate.

Can't find the tweet, but one of the FOX guys is saying that Darby is being investigated for potentially lying during this investigation. However, he's expected to only be fined.
User avatar
Nano
 
Posts: 7104
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:30 pm
Location: Somewhere above Tampa
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 248 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby The Outsider » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:24 pm

Nano wrote:That's the thing, neither have a reason to lie...and right now, their story is backed up more than Winston's side. We already know through NFL's electronic evidence(whatever that is) that Darby nor Banks was in the Uber when the incident supposedly happened. In fact, based on the two matching statements of Kate/Banks, Winston was alone in the car with Kate.

Can't find the tweet, but one of the FOX guys is saying that Darby is being investigated for potentially lying during this investigation. However, he's expected to only be fined.



What does 'electronic evidence' even mean? The only thing I'm thinking it could be is either texts between Winston/Darby/Banks or a picture.
Image
User avatar
The Outsider
 
Posts: 3791
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:02 pm
Location: Gettin' all up in ya
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Nano » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:30 pm

I'm not sure, but it's being said that's how they determined that Darby wasn't in the car at the time
User avatar
Nano
 
Posts: 7104
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:30 pm
Location: Somewhere above Tampa
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 248 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Cheb » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:38 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Nano wrote:That's the thing, neither have a reason to lie...and right now, their story is backed up more than Winston's side. We already know through NFL's electronic evidence(whatever that is) that Darby nor Banks was in the Uber when the incident supposedly happened. In fact, based on the two matching statements of Kate/Banks, Winston was alone in the car with Kate.

Can't find the tweet, but one of the FOX guys is saying that Darby is being investigated for potentially lying during this investigation. However, he's expected to only be fined.



What does 'electronic evidence' even mean? The only thing I'm thinking it could be is either texts between Winston/Darby/Banks or a picture.


I'm certainly no expert in these things but I know a thing or two. Most people these days carry smart phones with GPS enabled, on at all times, day and night. If you have the right programs and the access to the right servers and databases, you can definitely know where a phone is or has been, so long as that phone was on at the time. Certain countries, such as England, routinely use this information in criminal investigations.

Suppose I am an investigator hired by the NFL to check out this mess. I would have access to those databases and programs. I look up the phone location records of Jameis, Darby, and Banks on that night, using the GPS in their smartphones that they carry on their persons at all times.

If three of their phones were moving together towards a club along highways and roads at speed, and left at a similar rate of speed together, staying together the entire time in transit, then I know they are telling the truth. They all were in the same place at the same time, riding in the same car together.

If all three travel together to the club in the first part of the night, then that corroborates the first part of their story.

Now if I see Jameis's phone was leaving the club alone when the incident allegedly occurred, later in the evening, presumably in an Uber, presumably intoxicated, then his alibi doesn't hold water. He was alone. And people lied to cover it up.

Their initial story, as I understand it, is that the three of them stayed together in all Ubers that night, and no one saw anyone sexually assault anyone. If Jameis's phone signal is riding along a road by itself, while Darby's and Bank's phone signals are elsewhere, then I know that they are collectively full of ****.
Image
Cheb
 
Posts: 3530
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:00 pm
Location: West Coast is best coast
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 314 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Four Verticals » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:47 pm

The Outsider wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
Hey lets not forget the victims statement, that counts as evidence. So please stop disregarding the victims account. People around here are making it seem as if the victims account somehow doesn't count. As if Jamies account is the truth we have to live by.


I don't discount the alleged victim's statement. But at this point, again, it's he said-she said stuff. Ultimately, there is no evidence that Winston committed a crime other than a victim statement and corroboration from a man with extremely poor character with every reason to testify falsely. Which is never enough to even bring a case to trial. On top of that Winston has his own witness corroborating his side of the story. One that is unbelievably more credible than Brandon Banks. So like I said, in the other thread this suspension is Goodell meting out arbitrary justice as he does so often.


The NFL seems to know Darby was not in a car with Winston the entire time since those are the reports as such. If that is the case then this is evidence that Winston (and Darby) are being misleading at the very least.

I would also think that Uber has electronic records of trips on Winston's account which can be used to verify or discount evidence.
Four Verticals
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:12 pm
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby The Outsider » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:55 pm

Cheb wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

What does 'electronic evidence' even mean? The only thing I'm thinking it could be is either texts between Winston/Darby/Banks or a picture.


I'm certainly no expert in these things but I know a thing or two. Most people these days carry smart phones with GPS enabled, on at all times, day and night. If you have the right programs and the access to the right servers and databases, you can definitely know where a phone is or has been, so long as that phone was on at the time. Certain countries, such as England, routinely use this information in criminal investigations.

Suppose I am an investigator hired by the NFL to check out this mess. I would have access to those databases and programs. I look up the phone location records of Jameis, Darby, and Banks on that night, using the GPS in their smartphones that they carry on their persons at all times.

If three of their phones were moving together towards a club along highways and roads at speed, and left at a similar rate of speed together, staying together the entire time in transit, then I know they are telling the truth. They all were in the same place at the same time, riding in the same car together.

If all three travel together to the club in the first part of the night, then that corroborates the first part of their story.

Now if I see Jameis's phone was leaving the club alone when the incident allegedly occurred, later in the evening, presumably in an Uber, presumably intoxicated, then his alibi doesn't hold water. He was alone. And people lied to cover it up.

Their initial story, as I understand it, is that the three of them stayed together in all Ubers that night, and no one saw anyone sexually assault anyone. If Jameis's phone signal is riding along a road by itself, while Darby's and Bank's phone signals are elsewhere, then I know that they are collectively full of ****.



I guess I didn't think about GPS because I turn that function of my phone off unless I actively need it. For precisely that reason, actually.

I had counted Uber records out because if they had those kind of records there wouldn't have really needed to be an investigation in the first place.
Image
User avatar
The Outsider
 
Posts: 3791
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:02 pm
Location: Gettin' all up in ya
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby PlinkoBuccaneer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:57 pm

Hi, Bucs fans! :) Looks like Ryan Fitzpatrick will both step up to the plate, and keep the pirate ship afloat, as the Buccaneers starting QB in Week One. Fitz did relieve Jameis at least twice during two in the 2017 NFL season, before he went 2-0 as the Bucs starting QB, winning games over the N.Y. Jets 15-10 at Ray Jay, and the following week helped the Bucs win 30-20, with the game winning field goal at Miami. Bucs Backup QB’s are projected to be Ryan Griffin, and rookie Austin Allen. GO BUCS!!!! ;) 8-)
Last edited by PlinkoBuccaneer on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
PlinkoBuccaneer
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:51 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:30 pm

Plinko happened.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 12115
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Location: Crestucky
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 594 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby J-Stink » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:42 pm

What a pile of stank garbage. Worst thing is that the Bucs, being the 2nd dumbest franchise in the NFL, will sign him to a big payday.
User avatar
J-Stink
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:12 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:46 pm

Cheb wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

What does 'electronic evidence' even mean? The only thing I'm thinking it could be is either texts between Winston/Darby/Banks or a picture.

Suppose I am an investigator hired by the NFL to check out this mess. I would have access to those databases and programs.


I'm not super well-versed in every single privacy agreement that every smartphone carrier has, but by in-large, their privacy agreements limit usage of the data in your phone to advertisers, government agencies, and law enforcement. A private investigator who obtains access to this information would have to do it illegally or the providers would have to break the privacy agreement.

If the NFL investigator access the phone records of anyone involved, the provider can be sued for violation of the privacy policy. This is why LE should handle this stuff, and not the league.
Ken Carson
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:33 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 171 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:09 pm

Cheb wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

What does 'electronic evidence' even mean? The only thing I'm thinking it could be is either texts between Winston/Darby/Banks or a picture.


I'm certainly no expert in these things but I know a thing or two. Most people these days carry smart phones with GPS enabled, on at all times, day and night. If you have the right programs and the access to the right servers and databases, you can definitely know where a phone is or has been, so long as that phone was on at the time. Certain countries, such as England, routinely use this information in criminal investigations.

Suppose I am an investigator hired by the NFL to check out this mess. I would have access to those databases and programs. I look up the phone location records of Jameis, Darby, and Banks on that night, using the GPS in their smartphones that they carry on their persons at all times.

If three of their phones were moving together towards a club along highways and roads at speed, and left at a similar rate of speed together, staying together the entire time in transit, then I know they are telling the truth. They all were in the same place at the same time, riding in the same car together.

If all three travel together to the club in the first part of the night, then that corroborates the first part of their story.

Now if I see Jameis's phone was leaving the club alone when the incident allegedly occurred, later in the evening, presumably in an Uber, presumably intoxicated, then his alibi doesn't hold water. He was alone. And people lied to cover it up.

Their initial story, as I understand it, is that the three of them stayed together in all Ubers that night, and no one saw anyone sexually assault anyone. If Jameis's phone signal is riding along a road by itself, while Darby's and Bank's phone signals are elsewhere, then I know that they are collectively full of ****.


Fake news at best, Cheb. This isn't a criminal investigation. No lawsuit has been filed. No governing body is involved. An NFL investigator wouldn't have access to that information without the NFL themself exposing itself to a lawsuit.
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21965
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Nano » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Well, they got their 'electronic evidence' somehow.
User avatar
Nano
 
Posts: 7104
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:30 pm
Location: Somewhere above Tampa
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 248 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Cheb » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:38 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Fake news at best, Cheb. This isn't a criminal investigation. No lawsuit has been filed. No governing body is involved. An NFL investigator wouldn't have access to that information without the NFL themself exposing itself to a lawsuit.

Ken Carson wrote:I'm not super well-versed in every single privacy agreement that every smartphone carrier has, but by in-large, their privacy agreements limit usage of the data in your phone to advertisers, government agencies, and law enforcement. A private investigator who obtains access to this information would have to do it illegally or the providers would have to break the privacy agreement.

If the NFL investigator access the phone records of anyone involved, the provider can be sued for violation of the privacy policy. This is why LE should handle this stuff, and not the league.


I don't want to burst your bubbles, but not really. The Supreme Court just ruled yesterday that the police now need a warrant to access your location data. And just last month, the four major carries could sell your personal location information to private companies (such as the NFL) without a problem.

Here's an article I read last month about the major carriers selling location information to private companies willy-nilly: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/
Here's a link to the Wall Street Journal's article about the smartphone warrant decision: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-supreme-court-rules-police-need-warrant-for-most-cellphone-location-data-1529678019

Especially if the NFL either suggested or coerced the players to give them access to track their location information, the players don't have a legal leg to stand on. Zero chance of being sued.

A friend of mine works in this industry. He mostly speaks about his work in cryptic non-answers, but he's alluded to the fact that any teenager with an internet connection, the right programs, and ten minutes can know everywhere your cell phone has been for the past six months.

Not to derail this topic too far off-course. Just figured it was not only relevant to the discussion, but interesting for ya'll to know.
Image
Cheb
 
Posts: 3530
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:00 pm
Location: West Coast is best coast
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 314 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:00 pm

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fake news at best, Cheb. This isn't a criminal investigation. No lawsuit has been filed. No governing body is involved. An NFL investigator wouldn't have access to that information without the NFL themself exposing itself to a lawsuit.

Ken Carson wrote:I'm not super well-versed in every single privacy agreement that every smartphone carrier has, but by in-large, their privacy agreements limit usage of the data in your phone to advertisers, government agencies, and law enforcement. A private investigator who obtains access to this information would have to do it illegally or the providers would have to break the privacy agreement.

If the NFL investigator access the phone records of anyone involved, the provider can be sued for violation of the privacy policy. This is why LE should handle this stuff, and not the league.


I don't want to burst your bubbles, but not really. The Supreme Court just ruled yesterday that the police now need a warrant to access your location data. And just last month, the four major carries could sell your personal location information to private companies (such as the NFL) without a problem.

Here's an article I read last month about the major carriers selling location information to private companies willy-nilly: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/
Here's a link to the Wall Street Journal's article about the smartphone warrant decision: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-supreme-court-rules-police-need-warrant-for-most-cellphone-location-data-1529678019

Especially if the NFL either suggested or coerced the players to give them access to track their location information, the players don't have a legal leg to stand on. Zero chance of being sued.

A friend of mine works in this industry. He mostly speaks about his work in cryptic non-answers, but he's alluded to the fact that any teenager with an internet connection, the right programs, and ten minutes can know everywhere your cell phone has been for the past six months.

Not to derail this topic too far off-course. Just figured it was not only relevant to the discussion, but interesting for ya'll to know.

The article you linked also stipulates that each carrier is required by their privacy policy to obtain customer consent to location searches unless asked for by warrant. So again, if the NFL obtained the location from a provider via nonlaw enforcement means, which they could not since there was no official investigation, the hearing of his location was in violation of his privacy agreement.

The SC ruling has no bearing on this as that only applies to law enforcement.
Ken Carson
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:33 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 171 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 pm

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fake news at best, Cheb. This isn't a criminal investigation. No lawsuit has been filed. No governing body is involved. An NFL investigator wouldn't have access to that information without the NFL themself exposing itself to a lawsuit.

Ken Carson wrote:I'm not super well-versed in every single privacy agreement that every smartphone carrier has, but by in-large, their privacy agreements limit usage of the data in your phone to advertisers, government agencies, and law enforcement. A private investigator who obtains access to this information would have to do it illegally or the providers would have to break the privacy agreement.

If the NFL investigator access the phone records of anyone involved, the provider can be sued for violation of the privacy policy. This is why LE should handle this stuff, and not the league.


I don't want to burst your bubbles, but not really. The Supreme Court just ruled yesterday that the police now need a warrant to access your location data. And just last month, the four major carries could sell your personal location information to private companies (such as the NFL) without a problem.

Here's an article I read last month about the major carriers selling location information to private companies willy-nilly: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-access-to-real-time-location-data/
Here's a link to the Wall Street Journal's article about the smartphone warrant decision: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-supreme-court-rules-police-need-warrant-for-most-cellphone-location-data-1529678019

Especially if the NFL either suggested or coerced the players to give them access to track their location information, the players don't have a legal leg to stand on. Zero chance of being sued.

A friend of mine works in this industry. He mostly speaks about his work in cryptic non-answers, but he's alluded to the fact that any teenager with an internet connection, the right programs, and ten minutes can know everywhere your cell phone has been for the past six months.

Not to derail this topic too far off-course. Just figured it was not only relevant to the discussion, but interesting for ya'll to know.


Yes, you're right. Police do need a warrant to have access to this information. This isn't a criminal investigation. It's not a civil suit. Has no bearing on this case.

Another bit you missed is that cell carriers need customer consent to give location information. Seeing as Winston hasn't been interviewed or spoken to he likely hasn't given consent to this information being given to the NFL'S investigation.
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21965
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:08 pm

We have no idea what was written into the collective bargaining agreement as to the specifics of the NFLs power to collect evidence.

How did they get the actual footage in the Ray Rice incident? I know it was on-line and everyone saw it but didn’t the NFL get the raw video footage too? If they did, then there must be something in the bargaining agreement that gives them that power.

We simply don’t know.

On a tangential note not related to the above, odds are they might not even need the exact GPS data. If the players went in different directions the cell tower pings would be good enough no?
Zarniwoop
 
Posts: 5076
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:23 pm
Has thanked: 204 times
Been thanked: 251 times

Re: Jw suspended

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:We have no idea what was written into the collective bargaining agreement as to the specifics of the NFLs power to collect evidence.

How did they get the actual footage in the Ray Rice incident? I know it was on-line and everyone saw it but didn’t the NFL get the raw video footage too? If they did, then there must be something in the bargaining agreement that gives them that power.

We simply don’t know.

On a tangential note not related to the above, odds are they might not even need the exact GPS data. If the players went in different directions the cell tower pings would be good enough no?


Ummm cell tower pings=GPS data....
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21965
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 464 times

PreviousNext

post

Return to Team Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: .irishHITMAN4rent, ComingThisFall, DominatingD55, LynchysKiss and 15 guests