Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby BUCCABEER » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:17 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
BUCCABEER wrote:I don't recall off hand, but how old was Simeon Rice when we signed him?


28 I believe. It's at 29 that you start aging.


That's what my old ass recalls.....
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Caradoc » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:48 pm

Buc2 wrote:Mike Smith has got to be happy that the Bucs are finally making some moves for a change that might help him save his job.



Yeah, it's not like he got a first and second round pick on D when he got here. Poor guy had nothing to work with
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:50 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
I'm a little confused by the implication that we're seeing a masterclass in GM brilliance here and I'm missing it. We paid a 3rd rounder to take on an aging 8 sack speed rusher with an awful contract. Allen and Jensen? Nice players, signed to replace past mistakes by the same GM. So on and so forth.

If Punch and Judy would like respect, they can put together a roster that can go win games, and then go win them. I'm not giving them a cookie because maybe our 17th reinvention will be the one that does it. We've finished dead last 3 of their 4 years here.


Keep in mind she praised the Eagles in another thread for making trades and signings to cover up for their past mistakes in the trenches...Nothing to see here, just a little girl scorned.


Their past mistakes? What would those be?
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:52 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
BUCCABEER wrote:I don't recall off hand, but how old was Simeon Rice when we signed him?


28 I believe. It's at 29 that you start aging.


You're as old as you play. 15 sacks the last two years after being one of the most dynamic rusher in the league his first few years. That's aging. Or it's who he is now with the hand. Either way.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby NYBF » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:52 pm

8 sacks would be a bad thing? How many Bucs had 8 sacks last year? ****, did the team have 8 sacks last year?

Sure, he may not have the illustrious Bucs career that 3rd round pick Mike Glennon or 3rd pick Roberto Aguayo had, but to **** all over the trade is just stupid.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:54 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Keep in mind she praised the Eagles in another thread for making trades and signings to cover up for their past mistakes in the trenches...Nothing to see here, just a little girl scorned.


Their past mistakes? What would those be?


Whatever mistakes necessitated them signing and trading for aging players.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:55 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Keep in mind she praised the Eagles in another thread for making trades and signings to cover up for their past mistakes in the trenches...Nothing to see here, just a little girl scorned.


Their past mistakes? What would those be?


I guess 2012, 2015 and 2016 didn't happen?..

Or they did and their awesome player selections just severely underperformed (which would make them NOT awesome)....

Sooooooo....which one?..
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:55 pm

NYBF wrote:8 sacks would be a bad thing? How many Bucs had 8 sacks last year? ****, did the team have 8 sacks last year?

Sure, he may not have the illustrious Bucs career that 3rd round pick Mike Glennon or 3rd pick Roberto Aguayo had, but to **** all over the trade is just stupid.


I'm not ****ing on it. We landed a quality player and overpaid to do so. That's not ****ing. That's reality.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Super K wrote:
MJW wrote:
Their past mistakes? What would those be?


I guess 2012, 2015 and 2016 didn't happen?..

Or they did and their awesome player selections just severely underperformed (which would make them NOT awesome)....

Sooooooo....which one?..


????
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:56 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Their past mistakes? What would those be?


Whatever mistakes necessitated them signing and trading for aging players.


So you can't actually name any. Noted.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:56 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
28 I believe. It's at 29 that you start aging.


You're as old as you play. 15 sacks the last two years after being one of the most dynamic rusher in the league his first few years. That's aging. Or it's who he is now with the hand. Either way.


Or he is dynamic this year... I predict 10 sacks for him easily

Having GMC will help and Vinny Curry is no slouch
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:00 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
28 I believe. It's at 29 that you start aging.


You're as old as you play. 15 sacks the last two years after being one of the most dynamic rusher in the league his first few years. That's aging. Or it's who he is now with the hand. Either way.


That's the best you can do? "You're as old as you play"?? Really? 7.5 sacks over 2 seasons is pretty damn good and would be a welcome site from 1 player off the edge here. If that's his floor, sign me up. Unless you know of a 3rd rounder in this draft that could've gotten us more.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:01 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Whatever mistakes necessitated them signing and trading for aging players.


So you can't actually name any. Noted.


What's noted? As YOU stated, trading for and signing aging players is done when you have past mistakes to cover up for. Or is that only us?
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:03 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
So you can't actually name any. Noted.


What's noted? As YOU stated, trading for and signing aging players is done when you have past mistakes to cover up for. Or is that only us?


Where did I say that's the only reason you'd ever sign an older player? And how did the Eagles overpay anyone? I'll wait.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:05 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
You're as old as you play. 15 sacks the last two years after being one of the most dynamic rusher in the league his first few years. That's aging. Or it's who he is now with the hand. Either way.


That's the best you can do? "You're as old as you play"?? Really? 7.5 sacks over 2 seasons is pretty damn good and would be a welcome site from 1 player off the edge here. If that's his floor, sign me up. Unless you know of a 3rd rounder in this draft that could've gotten us more.


Mediocrity, thy name is Bootz.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:10 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
What's noted? As YOU stated, trading for and signing aging players is done when you have past mistakes to cover up for. Or is that only us?


Where did I say that's the only reason you'd ever sign an older player? And how did the Eagles overpay anyone? I'll wait.


You just called JPP, Allen and Jensen acquisitions to cover up for past mistakes in case you forgot. How is acquiring talent a cover up? Let's start there.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:12 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
That's the best you can do? "You're as old as you play"?? Really? 7.5 sacks over 2 seasons is pretty damn good and would be a welcome site from 1 player off the edge here. If that's his floor, sign me up. Unless you know of a 3rd rounder in this draft that could've gotten us more.


Mediocrity, thy name is Bootz.


7.5 sacks is mediocrity according to MJW. Got it. You have your great days. Then you have youe days where you make a strong case that women and sports should not mix. Tonight is definitely the latter.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Where did I say that's the only reason you'd ever sign an older player? And how did the Eagles overpay anyone? I'll wait.


You just called JPP, Allen and Jensen acquisitions to cover up for past mistakes in case you forgot. How is acquiring talent a cover up? Let's start there.


Jason Pierre Paul is here (with a massive contract at a high cost) because Licht made the mistake of investing almost nothing in the edge rush in the draft since he got here. If you like, you can throw in the mistakes that were Michael Johnson, Robert Ayers, and William Gholston's extension in there also. He is here because Licht ignored or mishandled a key position for four years and if we didn't find an instant upgrade now, we were screwed.

Allen is here because Baker was a huge mistake. Pretty A to B on that one.

Jensen in here because Kevin Pamphile never earned an extension here, necessitating Marpet moving back to guard. Or if you prefer, because Evan Smith never came within a light year of earning the deal we gave him and we let him walk.

The Eagles have been adding more strength to their strengths, and doing so on their own terms. There's no desperation about anything they do, because they actually do a good job of evaluating talent and exploiting teams with bigger problems than they have (like Seattle's cap situation, for example.) Us? We're the team that gets exploited.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bucs N Beers » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:19 pm

Legitimate question. When is the last time a Bucs DE had 8 sacks? I know Simeon was the last one to have 10. And GMC has gotten past 8. But when was the last DE to have 8?
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Mediocrity, thy name is Bootz.


7.5 sacks is mediocrity according to MJW. Got it. You have your great days. Then you have youe days where you make a strong case that women and sports should not mix. Tonight is definitely the latter.


When you treat 7.5 sacks like it's worth a top contract and a Day Two pick, and we should be throwing a parade for acquiring it, that's mediocrity talking. Maybe you've been mediocre for so long you don't recognize it anymore. It's sad. The loser mentality is always tough to see.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm

So if 7.5 sacks is mediocre, then I guess GMac wasn't/isn't as good or prolific a passrusher as she bemoaned in the other thread?...

And the Eagles didn't really get any better signing Bennett if that 7.5 number is the Mendoza line?

Just asking.....
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:22 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:Legitimate question. When is the last time a Bucs DE had 8 sacks? I know Simeon was the last one to have 10. And GMC has gotten past 8. But when was the last DE to have 8?


I think Stylez G. White had over 8 at one point. Michael Bennett may have come close as well.

EDIT: Stylez indeed had 8 sacks in 2007, the last season we made the playoffs. Bennett had 9 sacks his last year here in 2012. Which makes it even more puzzling we let him walk.
Last edited by Miller4Prez64 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:23 pm

Talking to Giants fans I know, they all said JJP was looking like his old self towards the end of the year, after about a half season adjustment to living with half a hand. The only real issue now is that he's strictly a LE due to not being able to lineup in the 3 point stance on the right side due to him missing half his thumb and forefinger.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:24 pm

Super K wrote:So if 7.5 sacks is mediocre, then I guess GMac wasn't/isn't as good or prolific a passrusher as she bemoaned in the other thread?...

And the Eagles didn't really get any better signing Bennett if that 7.5 number is the Mendoza line?

Just asking.....


It's so sad, watching our fanbase work this hard.

There is a key difference between JPP and McCoy. I'll let you figure it out.
And there is a key difference between JPP and Bennett. I'll give you that for free - the Eagles aren't pretending Bennett is their pass-rush's savior the way our sad-sack fanbase is treating JPP right now.

We added a nice player. We assumed a ridiculous contract and traded a valuable pick to do so. It's nothing more than that. He's not a savior. He's not the difference between a great rush and a bad one. He'll help. And we'll pay him more than we should for the chance.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Caradoc » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:27 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You just called JPP, Allen and Jensen acquisitions to cover up for past mistakes in case you forgot. How is acquiring talent a cover up? Let's start there.


Jason Pierre Paul is here (with a massive contract at a high cost) because Licht made the mistake of investing almost nothing in the edge rush in the draft since he got here. If you like, you can throw in the mistakes that were Michael Johnson, Robert Ayers, and William Gholston's extension in there also. He is here because Licht ignored or mishandled a key position for four years and if we didn't find an instant upgrade now, we were screwed.



So much fail in that statement, I don't know where to start.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:33 pm

MJW wrote:
Super K wrote:So if 7.5 sacks is mediocre, then I guess GMac wasn't/isn't as good or prolific a passrusher as she bemoaned in the other thread?...

And the Eagles didn't really get any better signing Bennett if that 7.5 number is the Mendoza line?

Just asking.....


It's so sad, watching our fanbase work this hard.

There is a key difference between JPP and McCoy. I'll let you figure it out.
And there is a key difference between JPP and Bennett. I'll give you that for free - the Eagles aren't pretending Bennett is their pass-rush's savior the way our sad-sack fanbase is treating JPP right now.

We added a nice player. We assumed a ridiculous contract and traded a valuable pick to do so. It's nothing more than that. He's not a savior. He's not the difference between a great rush and a bad one. He'll help. And we'll pay him more than we should for the chance.


Maybe it's because our pass rush was pathetically bad last year and our options to improve the position were extremely limited? I don't think anyone is claiming JPP is going to end up in our ring of honor or lead us to a Super Bowl, but we upgraded big time and people are happy. Let people be happy instead of putting people down for not being depressed we didn't trade for JJ Watt.

Plus, how often do our 3rd rounders actually pan out? The last time we drafted a Pro Bowler in the 3rd was Martin Gramatica in 1999, a freakin kicker. The best one since then is Jeremy Zuttah, a servicable veteran who never knocked anyone's socks off. I know you're a huge draft nut and love every pick, but I'd rather have JPP than a 3rd round pick. We weren't getting Chubb without a trade up and there is no other pass rusher in this draft that would fix the issue. Plus we still can easily recoup the 3rd in a trade down if the 4th QB of the Darnold/Allen/Rosen/Mayfield group is available at 7.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Deja Entendu » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:37 pm

While I agree I wish we've added more to our pass rush in the draft the last couple of year, that is hindsight.

It's worth noting that the Licht/Koetter regime has drafted as many pass rushers as the Roseman/Pederson regime has, in the same time span. We got Spence and they got Barnett.

Personally, I prefer Spence. If he can stay healthy, I still believe he will be a force off the edge.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Deja Entendu » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:43 pm

MJW wrote:
Super K wrote:So if 7.5 sacks is mediocre, then I guess GMac wasn't/isn't as good or prolific a passrusher as she bemoaned in the other thread?...

And the Eagles didn't really get any better signing Bennett if that 7.5 number is the Mendoza line?

Just asking.....


It's so sad, watching our fanbase work this hard.

There is a key difference between JPP and McCoy. I'll let you figure it out.
And there is a key difference between JPP and Bennett. I'll give you that for free - the Eagles aren't pretending Bennett is their pass-rush's savior the way our sad-sack fanbase is treating JPP right now.

We added a nice player. We assumed a ridiculous contract and traded a valuable pick to do so. It's nothing more than that. He's not a savior. He's not the difference between a great rush and a bad one. He'll help. And we'll pay him more than we should for the chance.


I haven't really seen anyone touting JPP as the pass rush savior... albeit I haven't read all of the comments.

Also, apparently, his contract isn't terrible either due to the way the guaranteed money is structured.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Deja Entendu » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:46 pm

This offseason has been very good for our d-line (including a new coach), and we still have the draft and a long off-season to add more pieces. PLUS a healthy Spence.
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Re: Bucs trade for DE Jason Pierre-Paul

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:52 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You just called JPP, Allen and Jensen acquisitions to cover up for past mistakes in case you forgot. How is acquiring talent a cover up? Let's start there.


Jason Pierre Paul is here (with a massive contract at a high cost) because Licht made the mistake of investing almost nothing in the edge rush in the draft since he got here. If you like, you can throw in the mistakes that were Michael Johnson, Robert Ayers, and William Gholston's extension in there also. He is here because Licht ignored or mishandled a key position for four years and if we didn't find an instant upgrade now, we were screwed.

Allen is here because Baker was a huge mistake. Pretty A to B on that one.

Jensen in here because Kevin Pamphile never earned an extension here, necessitating Marpet moving back to guard. Or if you prefer, because Evan Smith never came within a light year of earning the deal we gave him and we let him walk.

The Eagles have been adding more strength to their strengths, and doing so on their own terms. There's no desperation about anything they do, because they actually do a good job of evaluating talent and exploiting teams with bigger problems than they have (like Seattle's cap situation, for example.) Us? We're the team that gets exploited.


Talk about picking and choosing. But let's play.

Chris Long was signed because 1st round pick Marcus Smith was a bust

Michael Bennett was traded for because Vinny Curry never became the terror off of the edge they expected when they signed him to a large contract. Another mistake.

Timmy Jerrigan was traded for because Benny Logan never earned an extension here.

The Eagles have also been a revolving door covering up for players who didn't pan out. But per the usual you weren't bright enough to realize you were contradicting yourself. Not surprising.
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