OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors IV

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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby uscbucsfan » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:49 pm

acmillis wrote:I hate that more than half of the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. The regular season is almost pointless.

Here's a craze idea. 6 teams make the playoffs and the top two seeds get a bye. First round games are best of 3 and then everything else is best of 7. This would at least make the regular season count some.

I hate the idea that teams with a losing record make the playoffs.


Much like my response to SK, neither the NBA nor the NFL will reduce the teams that make the playoffs and/or reduce the number of games. It brings in money. It's the reason for all the millions of bowls in CFB and the 64 teams making the NCAA tourney.

The difference is that in the NFL a team with a losing record has a shot to play lights out for a game or two and win. Mostly in the NBA they show their colors over a 7 game series.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Swashy » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:34 pm

The NBA needs to consider contraction due to how watered down it is. Not that it's an economically viable idea or popular one but I have to imagine it would help. In an effort to be truly random here, let's pretend we get rid of just the teams where the NBA is only "big 4" game in town for that market: Memphis, Orlando, Portland, Sacramento, Utah, San Antonio. It's late and I might've missed a few but bare with me here. Let's look at some of the names we've freed up. Leonard is the most notable. Then off the top of my head there's others like Gasol, Lillard, Mitchell, Aldridge, Gordon. Again bare with me I'm trying to make it fast here. Put those guys on other teams instead of the big 3 and whatever team LeBron decides he plays for and suddenly we've created a damn monster. But sadly it would probably just be teams like Chicago, New York and LA.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Super K » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:22 am

Contraction wouldn't be a bad idea either..

PM, I've been a fan since the middle-ish 80's...(born in '76)

First really got into it when Boston beat Houston for the Championship (85 or 86 I think?)..

And while teams won titles in bunches, it wasn't true same ok ND of dominance as multiple other teams had the potential to win...

80s: Pistons, Rockets, Cavs, Bulls, Jazz, Mavs, Knicks (after Ewing came aboard)

90s: Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Heat, Spurs, Suns (with and without Barkley), Sonics, Rockets (2 different incarnations)

Again, this year was there ANY doubt it'd be Warriors, Rockets, Cavs?..Maybe toss Boston in there to make a little noise..
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:29 am

Those teams had no more chance to win than non GSW/Lebron teams now. They made for interesting series, but they’d never beat the eventual champ 4 of 7 games. Nothing is different now. The Rockets made the WCF an interesting 7 game series, but the team we all knew would win won in the end. The Celtics made the ECF an interesting 7 game series, but the player we all knew would win won in the end.

The Celtics and Rockets this year played the same role as the 90’s Knicks & Pacers. Those teams were NEVER going to beat the Bulls but they made for fun series.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Deja Entendu » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:24 pm

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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Swashy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Call me a conspiracy theorist but the only thing bringing any sort of competitive balance to the NBA will be ending super team formation like how the Chris Paul to the Lakers was vetoed. I mean seriously as if the ***damn Warriors needed any more help Durant happily takes himself there and leaves his backbone in OKC. And now it's conceivable to think that Paul George and LeBron James will just happily go to LA. If that's not conspiracy then I don't know what is. Oh sure the players well strike the hell out of it but this is just hypothetical here. But regardless of what happens, once the NBA loses its meal ticket of LeBron James in the finals every year after he retires they are FUCKED. I don't mean just a little bit I mean A LOT. The best the NBA has to hope for is that the Lakers and Knicks get their **** together by then because otherwise it'll be other super teams running wild on the rest of the league.

Turrible. Just turrible
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:48 pm

The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby terrytate » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:46 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.



I have yet to see one person wearing Warriors gear.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:46 am

terrytate wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.



I have yet to see one person wearing Warriors gear.


You live in Oakland?
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:21 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
terrytate wrote:

I have yet to see one person wearing Warriors gear.


You live in Oakland?


I believe that was sarcasm.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:55 am

terrytate wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.



I have yet to see one person wearing Warriors gear.


I do, they are called Laker fans. Their Lakers gear is just buried at the bottom of their shirt drawer until they become relevant again.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Swashy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:56 am

The NBA loves money. It's why they don't care about parity. God help the NBA when LeBron/Boston isn't in the Finals because we don't have the narrative of super team versus one man dynasty or the NBA's bastion of success. When he retires and Warrior dynasty is no more, ratings will plummet harder than the loss of the Jordan era and the NBA will promptly go right back to ****ing over teams like the 2001-2002 Sacramento Kings so bread and butter franchises like the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics and Bulls call pull ratings the finals.

Need proof?

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Just look at drop after Jordan. Wow. And those Spurs/Nets ratings! 10 million people? Can you even imagine what it would've been the year before had it not been LA instead of Sacramento? Now let's just imagine for a minute what's gonna happen if LeBron retires and teams like the Bulls, Lakers and Knicks are still colossal **** fires in 4 to 7 years. By then the Celtics will have had their spell of success. Until then you better believe they are thanking whatever God they believe in that the Celtics are their fallback option to LeBron not making the finals again

I almost can't wait for it. I want to see what a tire fire the NBA becomes if it experiences another actual spell of parity like when Detroit and Miami won instead of Spurs/Lakers.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:01 am

PrimeMinister wrote:The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.


This is the sad truth of it.

I know certain NBA fans don't think it's sad, but super teams and having an irrelevant regular season don't appeal to the sports fan in me. College Basketball has become a 3 week event these days and NBA isn't much different as nothing really matter in the NBA til you get to the conference finals. With the Warriors as currently constructed I don't see how anyone beats them short of Lebron joining the Rockets. But then the NBA finals would be a joke and nothing but a formality after whoever comes out of the West.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Super K » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:50 am

DreadNaught wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:The NBA & it’s fans love super teams.


This is the sad truth of it.

I know certain NBA fans don't think it's sad, but super teams and having an irrelevant regular season don't appeal to the sports fan in me. College Basketball has become a 3 week event these days and NBA isn't much different as nothing really matter in the NBA til you get to the conference finals. With the Warriors as currently constructed I don't see how anyone beats them short of Lebron joining the Rockets. But then the NBA finals would be a joke and nothing but a formality after whoever comes out of the West.


Agreed...

Thing is, with college hoops at least there is the CHANCE for some craziness to happen during the tourney...

In the NBA you can pretty much pencil in the Final 4 if not the Championship matchup..

Seriously, what was the biggest "blow your mind" moment of this year's playoffs?..and undermanned Celtic team beating Philly?..

Whoopdee freakin doo...
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:12 am

Super K, you must really be new to the NBA OR you just don’t like the current favorites. Did you hate the NBA during Jordan’s runs? No matter what people try to say now the Bulls were going to win those titles no matter what and we all knew it. The 80’s Lakers and Celtics were going to trade titles and there wasn’t a damn thing anyone could do about it during their run (minus Philly for one year). Every single season in the NBA we know who the Final 4 will be before the season starts. How is this year any different?

Edit: Of the 72 NBA Titles 59 have been won by 5 franchises (Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Warriors & Spur). That’s nearly 70% of all titles won by 5 franchises. The NBA is built on and thrives on super teams.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:36 am

I'm with PM here...the NBA is a sport that relies heavily on superteams.

We have had times where a couple superteams co-existed (lakers / celtics) but those were rare. Just like no one is going to be GSW if they play well. No one was going to beat Jordan's Bulls either.

That being said, this GSW team does seem to have more depth then recent superteams going back to the Lakers and Celtics. And with owners now willing to go way over the soft cap, the teams seem to be able to keep the depth for longer now. (not to mention how high the cap is to begin with)
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:13 am

The NBA certainly thrives on super teams and/or their big market teams having success. I just don't think that an ideal model b/c the markets like Orlando, Sacramento and various others never really have a chance at the ultimate prize.

I believe the data indicates that the NBA really only draws a big audience late in the playoffs and finals. Without a big market team or super team making deep runs in the NBA postseason the viewership is greatly impacted.

While we all understand that big markets attract more viewers, the NFL, CFB, and even Hockey to lesser extent are not as reliant on specific markets.

I just think the NBA model treads on thin line to attain/maintain popularity. Without a super team or one of handful a legacy franchises previously mentioned being successful the league is more heavily impacted compared to other pro sports.

I'm not saying it's a bad model, just one that doesn't appeal as widely as it could and somewhat limits the potential appeal it could have imo. It's a if parity isn't valued in basketball the way it is in football or hockey.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:27 am

off topic but Dwane Casey has agreed to a five-year deal to become the next coach of the Detroit Pistons, league sources told ESPN.

YES! YES! YES!
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:52 am

DreadNaught wrote:The NBA certainly thrives on super teams and/or their big market teams having success. I just don't think that an ideal model b/c the markets like Orlando, Sacramento and various others never really have a chance at the ultimate prize.

I believe the data indicates that the NBA really only draws a big audience late in the playoffs and finals. Without a big market team or super team making deep runs in the NBA postseason the viewership is greatly impacted.

While we all understand that big markets attract more viewers, the NFL, CFB, and even Hockey to lesser extent are not as reliant on specific markets.

I just think the NBA model treads on thin line to attain/maintain popularity. Without a super team or one of handful a legacy franchises previously mentioned being successful the league is more heavily impacted compared to other pro sports.

I'm not saying it's a bad model, just one that doesn't appeal as widely as it could and somewhat limits the potential appeal it could have imo. It's a if parity isn't valued in basketball the way it is in football or hockey.


That's exactly what it is. Parity is not valued by basketball fans and the NBA knows this. Swashy posted a graph showing fan viewership skyrocketed during Jordan's run. That Bulls run was as far from parity as you can get (the GOAT playing for the GOAT team) and fans LOVED it. Even now NBA fans look back on the 90's as 'real basketball' when there was 'real competition'. Super K fondly mentioned that era earlier as an example of what the NBA should go back to. Now as far as your comment on ratings I think you're wrong. The basketball fan wants dynasties, not parity. This is proved once again by ratings during the Bulls run and even the ratings this year were better than people expected. Fans like to see the Warriors destroy the world.

I would take this a step further and say not just NBA fans, but basketball fans love dynasties. The NCAA sells March Madness based on upsets and fans say they love the upsets, but ratings decline after the favorites are out. Fans think they like parity, but in reality most want the known favorites to win. The NBA has never had better ratings than their' 90's run when Jordan ruled the world. At that point the NBA was the most popular sport in the country. There is no reason to believe lack of parity will hurt NBA ratings when history shows otherwise.

In the audio captured by The Big Lead, McManus said it's better for ratings to have near upsets of big schools like Kentucky than it is for an underdog team like UMBC to go on a deep run in the NCAA Tournament.

"From a television standpoint, you really root for the big teams," McManus said. "Last night's Kentucky outcome was not good for us and not good for TBS at all. Kentucky being the blue bloods that they are, and having the television draw that they have, that really hurt us. Kansas State winning - I have nothing against Kansas State as a school or a team - but that really hurt us."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-voter-p ... on-brknews
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:56 am

Fans love to root for the underdog to win the NBA title, not the favorites

David vs Goliath
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:59 am

I agree with Prime. Ratings are significantly higher nationally in all sports when a large market team or super team is winning.

Many NBA fans, myself included, enjoy the purity in the NBA that the best teams win. The NBA has been doing really well in the regular season and playoffs these last 4 years. They are setting all sorts of records in revenue. It's a bad time to talk about changing things when financially they are experiencing their most successful period.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:01 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:I agree with Prime. Ratings are significantly higher nationally in all sports when a large market team or super team is winning.

Many NBA fans, myself included, enjoy the purity in the NBA that the best teams win. The NBA has been doing really well in the regular season and playoffs these last 4 years. They are setting all sorts of records in revenue. It's a bad time to talk about changing things when financially they are experiencing their most successful period.


Agree to disagree
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:Fans love to root for the underdog to win the NBA title, not the favorites

David vs Goliath

That sounds good, but has never been true in sports. Underdogs and Cinderella's usually equal poor viewership. Maybe you can argue they want underdog of a super team like Houston to win, but the NBA was not hoping for a Milwaukee or Indiana champ.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:54 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:Fans love to root for the underdog to win the NBA title, not the favorites

David vs Goliath


Yet most fans were happy to see the huge favorite (GSW) beat the underdog (Cavs). Ratings also disagree with you.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:57 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Phantom Phenom wrote:Fans love to root for the underdog to win the NBA title, not the favorites

David vs Goliath


Yet most fans were happy to see the huge favorite (GSW) beat the underdog (Cavs). Ratings also disagree with you.


Most fans hate LeBron. He went to 7th or 8th straight Finals

If Boston play Golden State for the Finals.

They’ll root for the Celtics
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:02 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Yet most fans were happy to see the huge favorite (GSW) beat the underdog (Cavs). Ratings also disagree with you.


Most fans hate LeBron. He went to 7th or 8th straight Finals

If Boston play Golden State for the Finals.

They’ll root for the Celtics


So most fans didn't do what you think they do? You have nothing to back up your point. Fans cheered for the favorite just like they always do. They cheered for the current basketball dynasty. If the Celtics become Eastern Conference royalty fans will flock to them. They have to look near unbeatable and fans will follow. Underdogs don't bring viewers; Multi time Champions do.

Edit: Most fans that hate Lebron argue that he should be MORE dominant. See? Even the hate is because he isn't dominant enough.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:05 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Phantom Phenom wrote:
Most fans hate LeBron. He went to 7th or 8th straight Finals

If Boston play Golden State for the Finals.

They’ll root for the Celtics


So most fans didn't do what you think they do? You nothing to back up your point. Fans cheered for the favorite just like they always do. They cheered for the current basketball dynasty.


Sorry, I disagree. We’re all entitled to our own opinions,
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby Super K » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:24 pm

I'll say this with 100% irrefutable, certainty...








I didn't post a graph...

;)
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:25 pm

Super K wrote:I'll say this with 100% irrefutable, certainty...








I didn't post a graph...

;)


Ha! My apologies. It was Swashy not you.
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Re: OFFICIAL 2018 NBA FINALS THREAD - Cavaliers Vs. Warriors

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:20 pm

This years NBA finals averaged 17.65m viewers per game. Down about 3m from the previous 2 years.

The NFL averages about 15m viewers per regular season game. The more marquee games get 20+m.

Over 100m watch the SuperBowl.

Championship Sunday gets around 43m per game
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