***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:44 am

Super K wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Today the Cavaliers traded:
Isaiah Thomas
Jae Crowder
Derrick Rose
Iman Shumpert
Channing Frye
Dwayne Wade
1st Rounder (their own, not the one from the Nets)

And they got:
George Hill
Rodney Hood
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
MIA 2nd Rounder


But they kept that high flying basketball phenom known as Tristan Thompson!

#Winning


Nobody wants Thompson on that awful contract, which LeBron demanded the Cavs give to him btw.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:08 am

4 new Cavs players play well vs Celtics
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 am

Phantom Phenom wrote:4 new Cavs players play well vs Celtics

Cavs are going win the title!!!!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby PlinkoBuccaneer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:52 pm

Happy 55th birthday, 'MJ' Michael Jeffery Jordan! ;) :)
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:00 am

Fergie should be drawn and quartered for that National Anthem rendition yesterday...

Damn...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:47 am

Super K wrote:Fergie should be drawn and quartered for that National Anthem rendition yesterday...

Damn...


That was pretty damn awful. Probably worst rendition of the Anthem by an actual "singer"/artist. Carl Lewis and Rosanne Barr butchered the Anthem pretty bad, but their claim to fame wasn't their singing ability either.

Just autotune it next time Fergie, or better yet, never agree to do that ever again.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Phantom Phenom » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:47 am

Anthony Davis’s last 10 games:

Points-Rebounds + FG’s

43-10 17/34
38-9 16/30
15-11 6/16
14-8 6/19
44-17 16/35
38-10 14/24
42-15 15/18
45-17 17/34
27-13 12/26
53-17 16/29

35.9 points, 12.7 rebounds, 135/265 (50.9%)
7-3 record for Pelicans
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby pewterpirates » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Ty Lue stepping away from his duties as Cavs coach, citing health issues.

In all seriousness, I hope he's alright.

But I'll also add, another head coach LeBron has chewed up and spit out. #coachkiller :lol:
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:25 pm

I really can't wait for the playoffs (Rockets fan). It looks like we'll be able to keep the 1 seed away from the Warriors. Only one team/series I'm waiting for.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:34 pm

The officiating of the Thunder-Raptors game was atrocious. Derozan, Ibaka and Coach Dewayne Casey all tossed out.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:36 am

LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:24 am

uscbucsfan wrote:LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.


Yet, he says he'd choose himself as MVP. This is definitely a story no one is talking about.

People will always criticize Harden because of his first couple of years in Houston and that damn Youtube video. Admittedly, in those years he was pretty bad. But he's really turned it around and no one seems to notice that Damian Lillard, Steph Curry, and Isaiah Thomas (who was in the MVP discussion last year) are all pretty bad. Harden gets in trouble when he has to chase smaller players around the perimeter. He'll get caught ball-watching or lose them somehow. But he does surprisingly well on post players. Last year, he often guarded LaMarcus Aldridge in the playoffs and did a good job.

I'm sooooo freaking ready for the playoffs.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby acmillis » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:40 am

uscbucsfan wrote:LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.

Lebron being not as good of a defender does not equate to Harden being a competent defender.

I think the Harden vs. James MVP debate really is not a debate imo.

Harden shoots .448% from the field, .367 from 3, and .864 from FT line. He also averages 8.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.
James shoots .547 % from the field, .365 from 3, and .729 from the FT line. He also averages 9.1 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.2 turnovers a game.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.

One guy is also 33 while the other is 28.

Take away the names and just look at the stats and, imo, it is blatantly obvious who is having the better season.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:41 am

acmillis wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.

Lebron being not as good of a defender does not equate to Harden being a competent defender.

I think the Harden vs. James MVP debate really is not a debate imo.

Harden shoots .448% from the field, .367 from 3, and .864 from FT line. He also averages 8.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.
James shoots .547 % from the field, .365 from 3, and .729 from the FT line. He also averages 9.1 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.2 turnovers a game.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.

One guy is also 33 while the other is 28.

Take away the names and just look at the stats and, imo, it is blatantly obvious who is having the better season.


This
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:56 am

I've watched zero NBA this year so far. Regular season just doesn't do it for me and Hockey has taken over whatever small amount of time I watched regular season NBA previously.

Seems like it's basically Warriors v Rockets in the West. Is Kahwi Leonard ever returning for the Spurs? Would that make a difference?

The East is the same old East it sounds like.

I'll tune into the playoffs once the second round gets here and one of these favorites loses a home game or we get to a game 7.

I'm definitely a casual basketball fan. :P
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:50 am

acmillis wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.

Lebron being not as good of a defender does not equate to Harden being a competent defender.

I think the Harden vs. James MVP debate really is not a debate imo.

Harden shoots .448% from the field, .367 from 3, and .864 from FT line. He also averages 8.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.
James shoots .547 % from the field, .365 from 3, and .729 from the FT line. He also averages 9.1 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.2 turnovers a game.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.

One guy is also 33 while the other is 28.

Take away the names and just look at the stats and, imo, it is blatantly obvious who is having the better season.


lmao wait what...am I missing blue text or something? According to your numbers, they're virtually the same from 3, in assists, and turnovers. LeBron is better from the field and rebounding. Harden is better from the FT line. Harden shoots more FT, which literally has nothing to do with anything and LeBron is older, which has nothing to do with anything. Yet it's "blatantly obvious" who is having the better season?

You forgot to mention that Harden averages 4 more points per game. And the part where Harden has led his team to 61 wins and the best record in the NBA and Cleveland has 45 wins, good enough for third in the EAST. Harden's signature moment for the season was becoming the first player to record a 60-point triple double. LeBron's signature moment was getting all of his teammates traded.

Also, it's not that LeBron has been "not as good", he's literally been one of the worst in the NBA this year on defense. Not in comparison to other stars or something...just one of the worst
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:59 am

DreadNaught wrote:I've watched zero NBA this year so far. Regular season just doesn't do it for me and Hockey has taken over whatever small amount of time I watched regular season NBA previously.

Seems like it's basically Warriors v Rockets in the West. Is Kahwi Leonard ever returning for the Spurs? Would that make a difference?

The East is the same old East it sounds like.

I'll tune into the playoffs once the second round gets here and one of these favorites loses a home game or we get to a game 7.

I'm definitely a casual basketball fan. :P


It's basically Warriors vs. Rockets for the NBA. That series is going to be crazy. The Rockets did win 2/3 on the year and Golden State is currently riddled with injuries so we'll see what happens.

I can't imagine Kawhi returning at this point. There are like 6 regular season games left and I don't think he could get back into the groove. That being said, I would like to avoid seeing a Kawhi-led Spurs team in the playoffs.

Toronto is nice in the East. I can easily see them coming out of the East but I don't think they could hang with the Rockets/Warriors in a 7-game series.

I love the game of basketball and the NBA but if I were suddenly Commissioner, the season would be cut down to like 60 games and the first round down to 5-game series. Then I'd be fired for losing all of that revenue.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:06 am

No way in hell the Rockets win the title.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:16 am

PrimeMinister wrote:No way in hell the Rockets win the title.


Great point. Thanks for contributing.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby acmillis » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:48 am

Deuce wrote:
acmillis wrote:Lebron being not as good of a defender does not equate to Harden being a competent defender.

I think the Harden vs. James MVP debate really is not a debate imo.

Harden shoots .448% from the field, .367 from 3, and .864 from FT line. He also averages 8.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.
James shoots .547 % from the field, .365 from 3, and .729 from the FT line. He also averages 9.1 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.2 turnovers a game.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.

One guy is also 33 while the other is 28.

Take away the names and just look at the stats and, imo, it is blatantly obvious who is having the better season.


lmao wait what...am I missing blue text or something? According to your numbers, they're virtually the same from 3, in assists, and turnovers. LeBron is better from the field and rebounding. Harden is better from the FT line. Harden shoots more FT, which literally has nothing to do with anything and LeBron is older, which has nothing to do with anything. Yet it's "blatantly obvious" who is having the better season?

You forgot to mention that Harden averages 4 more points per game. And the part where Harden has led his team to 61 wins and the best record in the NBA and Cleveland has 45 wins, good enough for third in the EAST. Harden's signature moment for the season was becoming the first player to record a 60-point triple double. LeBron's signature moment was getting all of his teammates traded.

Also, it's not that LeBron has been "not as good", he's literally been one of the worst in the NBA this year on defense. Not in comparison to other stars or something...just one of the worst

I failed to point out that Harden averages more ppg than Lebron which is a valid point. I think Harden actually is the league leader.

To me, getting more points from the field than the line is more impressive.

I also HATE the idea that conference standing (# of wins) should play any part in who is a better player because to me, the argument lends itself more to "Harden is on a better team than Lebron because HOU is in first in the West. Because of this, Lebron is more valuable.

And Lebron is not just "better from the field..." he makes 10% more of his shots from the field which is a huge deal.

I'm a firm believer that because Lebron has been so good for soooo long, his greatness (yuck) is passed over because the media/fans (like me) have come to expect this type of performance.

I think we're both ignoring the fact that Russ is damn near averaging another years' worth of a trib-dub.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby NYBF » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:08 am

acmillis wrote:Harden shoots .864 from FT line
James shoots .729 from the FT line.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.


1 - Getting points at the line is a bad thing?
2 - Maybe if LeBron shot better from the line he'd get more points per game and could close that scoring gap.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:09 am

acmillis wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:LeBron has been a dominant scorer and facilitator this season, but what's been lost is that he's been one of the worst defenders in the NBA. 2 years ago he was great, last year he was below average, but I was reading that he was ranked in the 400s in defensive win shares and a few other advanced metrics. Watching him play, he rarely helps, he's lazy on switches, and barely gives any effort on defense. I think that's what has helped fuel his highlight dunks and offensive onslaught, but I find it funny that people still criticize Harden, when Lebron is one of the worst defenders in the NBA this season. I don't think he's lost the ability, I think he'll be able to turn it on in the playoffs, but I found it interesting.

Lebron being not as good of a defender does not equate to Harden being a competent defender.

I think the Harden vs. James MVP debate really is not a debate imo.

Harden shoots .448% from the field, .367 from 3, and .864 from FT line. He also averages 8.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.3 turnovers a game.
James shoots .547 % from the field, .365 from 3, and .729 from the FT line. He also averages 9.1 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game while also averaging 4.2 turnovers a game.

Only 4.7 of Lebron's points/game come from FT line while 8.7 of Harden's points come from the FT each game.

One guy is also 33 while the other is 28.

Take away the names and just look at the stats and, imo, it is blatantly obvious who is having the better season.


I think you missed the point. LeBron is 453rd in the league in defensive efficiency, Harden is exponentially better this season. This has nothing to do with MVP or offensive stats. People joke that Harden is a revolving door on defense, but Lebron has been FAR FAR worse this season and it's because he doesn't care about playing defense, much like Harden. Lebron is putting all of his effort on offense. Nothing more was to be made from it other than that.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby pewterpirates » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:14 am

Also, Harden has led the Rockets to the best record in the NBA and No. 1 seed in the brutal West. Meanwhile, the Cavs are 3rd in an embarrassingly weak East conference.

Team success does matter in MVP voting.

And also, yeah. LeBron sucks at defense, but the casual fan only sees highlights of his chasedown blocks and thinks he's a great defender. He's always been an overrated defender IMO. He's been a TERRIBLE post defender against guys stronger or as strong as he is....and then he looks around for a teammate to blame.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:16 am

pewterpirates wrote:Also, Harden has led the Rockets to the best record in the NBA and No. 1 seed in the brutal West. Meanwhile, the Cavs are 3rd in an embarrassingly weak East conference.

Team success does matter in MVP voting.

And also, yeah. LeBron sucks at defense, but the casual fan only sees highlights of his chasedown blocks and thinks he's a great defender. He's always been an overrated defender IMO. He's been a TERRIBLE post defender against guys stronger or as strong as he is....and then he looks around for a teammate to blame.


It's an easy argument to make that the Cavs without LeBron are much worse than the Rockets without Harden.

Regarding LeBron's defense, he's a historically great on and off ball defender. He's ranked in the top 10 all time in defensive win shares even with two really bad seasons. He wasn't good last year and he's atrocious this year...my point is, no one talks about it. He does blame his teammates too much and they hate it according to some of the recently traded Cavs.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:43 am

acmillis wrote:
Deuce wrote:
lmao wait what...am I missing blue text or something? According to your numbers, they're virtually the same from 3, in assists, and turnovers. LeBron is better from the field and rebounding. Harden is better from the FT line. Harden shoots more FT, which literally has nothing to do with anything and LeBron is older, which has nothing to do with anything. Yet it's "blatantly obvious" who is having the better season?

You forgot to mention that Harden averages 4 more points per game. And the part where Harden has led his team to 61 wins and the best record in the NBA and Cleveland has 45 wins, good enough for third in the EAST. Harden's signature moment for the season was becoming the first player to record a 60-point triple double. LeBron's signature moment was getting all of his teammates traded.

Also, it's not that LeBron has been "not as good", he's literally been one of the worst in the NBA this year on defense. Not in comparison to other stars or something...just one of the worst

I failed to point out that Harden averages more ppg than Lebron which is a valid point. I think Harden actually is the league leader.

To me, getting more points from the field than the line is more impressive.

I also HATE the idea that conference standing (# of wins) should play any part in who is a better player because to me, the argument lends itself more to "Harden is on a better team than Lebron because HOU is in first in the West. Because of this, Lebron is more valuable.

And Lebron is not just "better from the field..." he makes 10% more of his shots from the field which is a huge deal.

I'm a firm believer that because Lebron has been so good for soooo long, his greatness (yuck) is passed over because the media/fans (like me) have come to expect this type of performance.

I think we're both ignoring the fact that Russ is damn near averaging another years' worth of a trib-dub.


I get your point about conference standing not playing a part, but it almost has to. The MVP of the league shouldn't be on a team that misses the playoffs or is doomed for a first-round exit. Leading a historically great team should also be considered.

I'm perfectly fine with Curry winning MVP two years ago. Harden was better than him stat-wise, but Curry was the best player on the best team. Then the narrative changed last year. Even though the Rockets had a better record and Harden was more efficient, Westbrook won it because he achieved some made-up stat. That one still annoys me. The fact that he's almost having the same season and isn't in the discussion is telling. After coming in second two years in a row, I think this is the year that the media finally gives it to Harden. Most people think it's a done deal.

If we look at True Shooting Percentage, which basically distills everything into one percentage, LeBron is at 62.4% and Harden is 61.9%. So neither the fact that LeBron is better from the field or worse at FT really matters big picture.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby acmillis » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:18 pm

Can someone link me to the defensive win shares or whatever ranking you're citing. I want to see the nitty-gritty of it.

Glad we can have a detailed discussion on this without it getting derailed by vegan talk or why we wasted a 3rd round pick...thanks fellas!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:38 pm

acmillis wrote:Can someone link me to the defensive win shares or whatever ranking you're citing. I want to see the nitty-gritty of it.

Glad we can have a detailed discussion on this without it getting derailed by vegan talk or why we wasted a 3rd round pick...thanks fellas!


The stat in question looks to be defensive rating. LeBron's defensive rating is 111.7, good for 464th in the league.

Explanation:
The formula is: Defensive Rating = (Opponent's Points Allowed/ Opponent's Possessions) x 100. The result is the expected amount of points that an individual player will allow on defense over 100 possessions. This stat can be significantly influenced by the defense of a player's teammates.

I'm looking around him for some players' names that one might recognize. Dirk Nowitzki's is 109.9 and he's 39 years old. James Harden's worst season, his was 107.3. It can be influenced by teammates and most of the Cavs are pretty close to the bottom of the league. Most of Boston's players are near the top of the league. But once you watch the link below, you'll have no doubt that LeBron shares a large part of the blame. I also want to add that this is fine, LeBron is still the best player in the league and if he's resting for the playoffs, it's smart. But gtfo with the MVP talk.

Defensive rating: https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/? ... TING&dir=1

Real life examples (all from a single game): https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/95 ... 40/video/1
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:50 pm

There are other advanced stats, too, but I'm on my phone. Thanks, Duece for the assist.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Deuce » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:52 am

Anyone else watching the playoffs? I'll admit that I normally only watch the Rockets during the regular season but the playoffs have been really fun for almost every series.

One sweep:
NOP over POR 4-0 (wow btw)

Underdog has picked up a game:
GSW-SAS 3-1
HOU-MIN 2-1
UTA-OKC 2-1
PHI-MIA 3-1

All tied up:
CLE-IND 2-2
BOS-MIL 2-2
TOR-WAS 2-2
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Re: ***OFFICIAL NBA 2017-2018 SEASON THREAD***

Postby Super K » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:15 am

I was at the Cavs/Pacers game Wednesday night...

Loudest thing I ever heard when LBJ hit that shot...I have some video from my cheap seats, but it doesn't do it justice...


Not a big picture/video guy, but as soon as they called timeout and we knew he'd get a shot, all I could think about was his game winner against Orlando back in the day...

So I figured I'd take a chance and record it...
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