***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Thread!**

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:40 pm

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Phantom Phenom » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:18 pm

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:53 am

Phantom Phenom wrote:https://thehockeywriters.com/tampa-bay-lightning-consider-trading-kucherov/

Hope the rumors aren’t true :(


Yeah...I mentioned this on the last page.

It is what it is. The fact is that something or someone needs to go...and by the end of next year.

Honestly, I don't see Yzerman getting a big enough return to trade Kuch...but the most recent rumor (out of TSN in Canada) is that Tyler Johnson is gone and it's a "done deal". This makes much more sense.

We need to re-tool this defense. Hedman and Sergachev are the only defensemen signed past next year. Point, Kuch and Gourde will all need new deals as well. We NEED to dump salary. TJ is making what he's worth. In the NHL, the pay-scale is (roughly) 1 mil per 10 pts. scored (for offensive players). Less, is considered a "good deal". TJ is right in the range of a 50 pt. scorer.

The other rumor is that we're talking to VAN about Tanev...a guy we would've signed at the deadline last year, if he were healthy (IMO). IF we can trade TJ and get Tanev...it helps. Tanev is a shutdown, top 4, RIGHT HANDED defenseman. No offense but we don't need that. His Corsi for shot suppression (which we need BIG TIME) is off the charts.

Regardless, we can't re-sign Kuch, Gourde, TJ Miller, McD, Point AND Stralman AND re-tool our defense, with our salary structure as it stands. It is FISCALLY IMPOSSIBLE. And all of the "dream scenarios" from Lightning Fan notwithstanding...Yzerman needs to work some magic just to keep this team a cup contender after next year.

Our franchise strength is offensive talent. We have it in spades. What we don't have is defensive talent (in the pipeline). Foote is like 2 years away...and he is the best we've got. Our next best is likely a 3rd liner. Thus...it makes fiscal sense to trade of some EXPENSIVE, offensive talent. Johnson is a prime candidate. Besides...trading TJ likely frees up space to re-sign TJ Miller...a guy who provides a more tangible net benefit to this offense. And a younger option as well.

In Yzerman I trust. This is gonna be an interesting 2 months...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:57 am

If you look at lists of top 50 NHL prospects, Foote is the only one who consistently shows up, Katchouk sometimes.

I think Foote is the top prospect right now and it should stay that way. He should spend 2 years in the AHL if they are going to develop him right.

I hate bringing young defensemen up before they fill out and are physically mature. You know they are going to make tons of mistakes, no need to possibly damage their psyche when they really should not be playing with the big boys yet.

Dahlin is the exception. He was NHL ready at 17.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:23 pm

Brazen331 wrote:If you look at lists of top 50 NHL prospects, Foote is the only one who consistently shows up, Katchouk sometimes.

I think Foote is the top prospect right now and it should stay that way. He should spend 2 years in the AHL if they are going to develop him right.

I hate bringing young defensemen up before they fill out and are physically mature. You know they are going to make tons of mistakes, no need to possibly damage their psyche when they really should not be playing with the big boys yet.

Dahlin is the exception. He was NHL ready at 17.


Do you remember when Hedman came up? I do.

Most fans thought he was a bum. Soft. "Typical" Euro. Too much finesse. Listen to Don Cherry...and many other NHL "experts". They "say" it typically takes 300 NHL games to find out what a defensive player is gonna be, in the league.

This makes Sergachev's year even more impressive. Imagine what he could become in a couple of years (the 300 game mark). IF Dahlin comes close to what Sergachev produced, I'll be impressed. He's gonna struggle at times. I think Dahlin will be really good...but stranger things have happened. Waaaaay too soon to tell.

Regardless of the "Top 50" goes...know this. The Lightning are LOADED with forwards. Be damned what the "Top 50" says. Wait a year and everyone will know that.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:If you look at lists of top 50 NHL prospects, Foote is the only one who consistently shows up, Katchouk sometimes.

I think Foote is the top prospect right now and it should stay that way. He should spend 2 years in the AHL if they are going to develop him right.

I hate bringing young defensemen up before they fill out and are physically mature. You know they are going to make tons of mistakes, no need to possibly damage their psyche when they really should not be playing with the big boys yet.

Dahlin is the exception. He was NHL ready at 17.


Do you remember when Hedman came up? I do.

Most fans thought he was a bum. Soft. "Typical" Euro. Too much finesse. Listen to Don Cherry...and many other NHL "experts". They "say" it typically takes 300 NHL games to find out what a defensive player is gonna be, in the league.

This makes Sergachev's year even more impressive. Imagine what he could become in a couple of years (the 300 game mark). IF Dahlin comes close to what Sergachev produced, I'll be impressed. He's gonna struggle at times. I think Dahlin will be really good...but stranger things have happened. Waaaaay too soon to tell.

Regardless of the "Top 50" goes...know this. The Lightning are LOADED with forwards. Be damned what the "Top 50" says. Wait a year and everyone will know that.


The thing about Dahlin is that he scored twice as many points in his SHL season than Karlsson did and he was a year younger when he did it.

But part of the reason why I would prefer not to go into cap purgatory over Kucherov is the need to lock down the future, meaning Sergachev and Point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:18 am

Brazen331 wrote:But part of the reason why I would prefer not to go into cap purgatory over Kucherov is the need to lock down the future, meaning Sergachev and Point.


I agree. I think we SHOULD consider trading Kuch...but trading a YOUNG, 100 point scorer in the NHL is damn near unprecedented. Holy crap...I can't fathom the reaction should that scenario play out...

The fact is, Centers are more important than wingers. The old maxim is, "You can't have enough Centers". Point is the priority over Kuch. Obviously, because of our future defensive issues, Sergachev is as well. Oh...and Vasy is up in 2 years. He WILL to get paid.

Tyler Johnsons NTC kicks in July 1st. Don't be shocked if he's moved...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:38 pm

JT Miller signs 5 years 5.25 per year

http://bit.ly/2KnFbKU?cc=5dcbd472215736 ... 93f703a3b1
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Commander Bubbles » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:07 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:JT Miller signs 5 years 5.25 per year

http://bit.ly/2KnFbKU?cc=5dcbd472215736 ... 93f703a3b1


Awesome!

Had anyone heard that we will be visiting with Tavares? Can we really land him?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:24 pm

What does this Miller signing mean for Kuch?

I get Kuch struggled at the end of the playoffs, but he's arguably our best offensive player (respects to Stammer) and he's still young.

I'm no hockey buff but Kuch seems like one the most skilled players in the league. If there is one thing I know about team building in pro sports is you don't let young talent get away, especially those that light up the scoreboard.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:15 pm

DreadNaught wrote:What does this Miller signing mean for Kuch?

I get Kuch struggled at the end of the playoffs, but he's arguably our best offensive player (respects to Stammer) and he's still young.

I'm no hockey buff but Kuch seems like one the most skilled players in the league. If there is one thing I know about team building in pro sports is you don't let young talent get away, especially those that light up the scoreboard.


I don’t think Kuch is going anywhere
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Phantom Phenom » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:07 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:What does this Miller signing mean for Kuch?

I get Kuch struggled at the end of the playoffs, but he's arguably our best offensive player (respects to Stammer) and he's still young.

I'm no hockey buff but Kuch seems like one the most skilled players in the league. If there is one thing I know about team building in pro sports is you don't let young talent get away, especially those that light up the scoreboard.


I don’t think Kuch is going anywhere



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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:44 pm

Commander Bubbles wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:JT Miller signs 5 years 5.25 per year

http://bit.ly/2KnFbKU?cc=5dcbd472215736 ... 93f703a3b1


Awesome!

Had anyone heard that we will be visiting with Tavares? Can we really land him?


No. They would have let Miller become a UFA if they thought they could sign him. Tavares isn’t going anywhere. When you look at the teams he is meeting with, you can easily draw that conclusion. Slight chance San Jose lands him, but if he was serious about actually leaving, why didn’t Vegas make the cut? They have the most cap room and they have no captain.

It’s actually the perfect place for him. You could make the Karlsson line the 2nd line for a lethal 1-2 punch. But no, it seems obvious Tavares wants that 8th year. Probably for the best as I don’t think he is worth 11-12 million a year.

Let the team who drafted him overpay.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:17 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Commander Bubbles wrote:
Awesome!

Had anyone heard that we will be visiting with Tavares? Can we really land him?


No. They would have let Miller become a UFA if they thought they could sign him. Tavares isn’t going anywhere. When you look at the teams he is meeting with, you can easily draw that conclusion. Slight chance San Jose lands him, but if he was serious about actually leaving, why didn’t Vegas make the cut? They have the most cap room and they have no captain.

It’s actually the perfect place for him. You could make the Karlsson line the 2nd line for a lethal 1-2 punch. But no, it seems obvious Tavares wants that 8th year. Probably for the best as I don’t think he is worth 11-12 million a year.

Let the team who drafted him overpay.


Ok. As Bill and Ted famously said:

"There are strange things afoot at the Circle K".

At this point...none of this makes ANY kind of sense.

1) It's crystal clear to ANYONE with half a brain, that there is NO CONCEIVABLE WAY John Tavares comes here. So...WHY are we even meeting with him?

2) Yzerman is one of the shrewdest GM's in the league. This isn't even a debate...and I'm not speaking as a Lightning fan. He can do simple math as easily as the rest of us.

3) Yzerman ALSO knows the state of our player contracts moving into NEXT off-season (and the following season). If WE know it, I'm relatively certain he does as well.


Simply put, there HAS to be player(s) moving OUT of Tampa. The math DEMANDS that much. At the very least. I suppose it's concievable that Yzerman just wanted to vacation in L.A. and figured he'd stop by and say "hi" while he was in town...but (assuming that's not the case), Yzerman must believe there is a legitimate purpose for making the stop.

I think he's proven over the last 5-6 years, that he's much better at the whole "GM thing" than the rest of us. He doesn't just make wild-assed guesses and hope for the best.

I've heard exactly ONE reputable source (can't remember the TSN reporter's name), say (about 3 days ago), that Tyler Johnson was OUT of Tampa and that it was a "done deal". Haven't heard a thing since but it stands to reason. There simply MUST be contracts moving out. Without that, we can't even HOPE to re-sign Kuch or Point or Vasy or Gourde.

OR more defensemen to replace the FOUR whose contracts expire next year.

In short, there simply must be things going on behind the scenes to free up cap space. We can ALL agree that Yzerman has proven, BEYOND DOUBT, that he knows what he's doing. Based on that ALONE, look for some **** to go down by July 1st. That's when UFA's can officially sign AND when TJ's NMC kicks in. Look for news regardin him within the next couple of days...and I'd be surprised if he wasn't the only Bolt in the news.

In Yzerman I trust.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:05 am

Free up as much salary as you want but you still have a cap. Signing Kucherov is fine if that’s the road you choose, but be aware that you will have a huge chunk of the cap tied up in 3 players.

I look at a team like the Oilers that really can’t do much even with the best player on earth because they pay so much to so few and have to field such a poor supporting cast because of it.

But if the Bolts are going to tie so much salary up in 3 players, I’d rather that player be Tavares or Karlsson over Kucherov.

Alpha says there are good forwards in Syracuse. If that’s the case bring them up for some cheap labor while you spend to retool this defense.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:07 am

Brazen331 wrote:Free up as much salary as you want but you still have a cap. Signing Kucherov is fine if that’s the road you choose, but be aware that you will have a huge chunk of the cap tied up in 3 players.

I look at a team like the Oilers that really can’t do much even with the best player on earth because they pay so much to so few and have to field such a poor supporting cast because of it.

But if the Bolts are going to tie so much salary up in 3 players, I’d rather that player be Tavares or Karlsson over Kucherov.

Alpha says there are good forwards in Syracuse. If that’s the case bring them up for some cheap labor while you spend to retool this defense.



Kuch makes 4.7 miilion soon to be 8 million..Tavares and Karlsson will cost 8-10 miilion each. No way that will that work. Much more likely we sign defensman Tanev from vancouver and resign Kuch...

as far as forwards from syracuse ...meh too early right now. look at Cirelli, he was very hot and cold.Johnson will be gone so we will be adding another forward for sure.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:as far as forwards from syracuse ...meh too early right now. look at Cirelli, he was very hot and cold.Johnson will be gone so we will be adding another forward for sure.


Yep. Waaay too soon to know what they're gonna be in the NHL.

The Baby Bolts just played their first year in Syracuse. Most of them are getting AT LEAST, one more year there.

I've heard Volkov and Mattieu were gonna get a legit shot at making the Bolt roster, this year. Point spoiled us. Most of these guys need seasoning in a professional league. Point joined the club out of Juniors. That's the exception, not the rule.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:20 pm

Brazen331 wrote:Free up as much salary as you want but you still have a cap. Signing Kucherov is fine if that’s the road you choose, but be aware that you will have a huge chunk of the cap tied up in 3 players.

I look at a team like the Oilers that really can’t do much even with the best player on earth because they pay so much to so few and have to field such a poor supporting cast because of it.

But if the Bolts are going to tie so much salary up in 3 players, I’d rather that player be Tavares or Karlsson over Kucherov.

Alpha says there are good forwards in Syracuse. If that’s the case bring them up for some cheap labor while you spend to retool this defense.


I wasn't even speaking of signing Tavares or Karlsson. Hell...I'm the one suggesting that Kucjerov could be traded at some point. Personally, I think Point is more valuable than Kuch. Point plays Center AND wing. MY priority would be Point, Sergachev, Vasy, THEN Kuch. I'd even prioritize re-signing McD and another Top 4 defenseman over Kuch.

The "problem" is that 100 point scorers aren't traded away at 25 years old. I don't even know if that's EVER happened before. If any of y'all know of an instance where a 100 pointer was traded at a (relatively) young age...I'd love to hear of it. Maybe it's happened and I don't remember. The one that comes to mind is Gretzky going to LA but I think he was 30. I'll have to look.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:33 pm

Ok...it's probably a poor comparison...I am NOT comparing Kuch to Gretzky.

Gretzky was 28 when he was traded to the Kings. He was (obviously) coming off of multiple 100+ point seasons. Here are the particulars of that trade:

Gretzky, Marty McSorley and Center Mike Krushelnyski to the Kings.

The Oilers get:

15 MILIION dollars
Center Jimmy Carson and Winger Martin Gelinas
1st round picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993

McSorely was decent. I don't think the other players amounted to much and I'm not going to see who the first round picks turned out to be. Obviously, Kuch wouldn't garner a Gretzky-type haul...but it would be in the zip code.

Chew on that for a minute.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 pm

Alpha wrote:Ok...it's probably a poor comparison...I am NOT comparing Kuch to Gretzky.

Gretzky was 28 when he was traded to the Kings. He was (obviously) coming off of multiple 100+ point seasons. Here are the particulars of that trade:

Gretzky, Marty McSorley and Center Mike Krushelnyski to the Kings.

The Oilers get:

15 MILIION dollars
Center Jimmy Carson and Winger Martin Gelinas
1st round picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993

McSorely was decent. I don't think the other players amounted to much and I'm not going to see who the first round picks turned out to be. Obviously, Kuch wouldn't garner a Gretzky-type haul...but it would be in the zip code.

Chew on that for a minute.


You are not going to get top value if you trade him. Everyone knows that their offer will be better than losing him in FA for nothing.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:19 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:Ok...it's probably a poor comparison...I am NOT comparing Kuch to Gretzky.

Gretzky was 28 when he was traded to the Kings. He was (obviously) coming off of multiple 100+ point seasons. Here are the particulars of that trade:

Gretzky, Marty McSorley and Center Mike Krushelnyski to the Kings.

The Oilers get:

15 MILIION dollars
Center Jimmy Carson and Winger Martin Gelinas
1st round picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993

McSorely was decent. I don't think the other players amounted to much and I'm not going to see who the first round picks turned out to be. Obviously, Kuch wouldn't garner a Gretzky-type haul...but it would be in the zip code.

Chew on that for a minute.


You are not going to get top value if you trade him. Everyone knows that their offer will be better than losing him in FA for nothing.


Wrong.

Who says we can't re-sign Kuch and let someone else walk? We very well might. Again...you typically don't let 100 pointers just walk out the door.

We most definitely would get "top value" by trading him. The difference is (as opposed to Gretzky's day), is that there is a salary cap now. Thus, "top value" is relative.

Multiple players/draft picks would be in any deal.

Take a look at what we gave up for McD last year: Our best offensive AND defensive prospect(s) PLUS (potentially) TWO first round picks. At best, a first and a second.
And McD had the same time left on his contract as Kuch does.

That is the STARTING point for a deal involving us dealing Kuch.

And who knows? Maybe we deal Johnson and get Coburn and Callahan off the books early. That gives us plenty of room to re-sign Kuch AND Point AND McD.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am

And none of you have answered my very simple question:

CLEARLY...at this point...we can't afford to sign Tavares.

WHY is Yzerman even bothering to meet with him?










Unless...we can?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:36 am

Alpha wrote:And none of you have answered my very simple question:

CLEARLY...at this point...we can't afford to sign Tavares.

WHY is Yzerman even bothering to meet with him?










Unless...we can?


Maybe Yzerman will talk him into taking 8.5 million a year like Stamkos:) one can always hope.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Kress » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:18 am

Brazen331 wrote:You are not going to get top value if you trade him. Everyone knows that their offer will be better than losing him in FA for nothing.



That logic only holds water in a one-on-one negotiation. Teams can't give a lowball "take it or leave it" offer if other teams are around to try to get him as well. With a top-tier talent like that, teams aren't negotiating with or bidding with the Lightning. They'd be bidding against each other, with each one driving up the next until they hit their top-dollar breaking point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Kress » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:26 am

Alpha wrote:And none of you have answered my very simple question:

CLEARLY...at this point...we can't afford to sign Tavares.

WHY is Yzerman even bothering to meet with him?










Unless...we can?





A short-term, "chance to win a cup" deal, with him then walking into free agency in a couple of years, still being a relatively-young player, and seeking his long-term deal then. He'd bet on his health and a possible cup with a great organization against the security of a long-term deal now.

Throw in the tax thing and some fancy tesla coils slinging stuff around the arena, and that's all I've got.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:03 pm

Kress wrote:
Alpha wrote:And none of you have answered my very simple question:

CLEARLY...at this point...we can't afford to sign Tavares.

WHY is Yzerman even bothering to meet with him?










Unless...we can?





A short-term, "chance to win a cup" deal, with him then walking into free agency in a couple of years, still being a relatively-young player, and seeking his long-term deal then. He'd bet on his health and a possible cup with a great organization against the security of a long-term deal now.

Throw in the tax thing and some fancy tesla coils slinging stuff around the arena, and that's all I've got.


Yeah...I've heard that idea floated around and it makes some sense.

It doesn't change the stone-cold fact that we have (roughly) 5 million left in cap space for this year. As things stand right now.

I seriously doubt Yzerman took Cooper and BrisBois to LA with a 5 million dollar offer. They'd get laughed out the door. It leads me to believe that we're actually going to have MORE than 5 mil. Logic dictates that means somebody (or more than one somebody) is already gone. It's the ONLY way.

This all reminds me of the Karlsson thing last year. When it's all said and done, he probably stays in NY. That said, the fact that we were even making the effort is pretty obnoxious. LOL!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Kress » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:45 am

Isn't Karlsson available again?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:27 am

Kress wrote:Isn't Karlsson available again?


He's entering the final year of his contract.

Of course, anyone is available for the right price.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Kress » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:59 am

How about you? Are you available?
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Kress
 
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Kress » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:03 am

Reminds me of that (supposed) exchange between Winston Churchill and a young lady:

Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Woman: My goodness, Mr. Churchill. That's a lot of money. Well, I suppose I would.
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Woman: My God, I've never been so insulted. What kind of woman do you think I am?
Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established what you are. Now we are just haggling about the price.
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