***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Thread!**

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:58 am

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:I will be shocked if WK makes it all the way to arbitration. It might not go well for him because he is not a 40-goal scorer. He had a 25 percent shooting percentage this year. What’s average like 9 or 10 percent? So that will bring him down. You look at his plusminus and you could make an argument that he might have been the best defensive forward last year but that’s not where you make your money.

I think Vegas will offer him a 6 year contract for 6 million a year. He probably should not turn that down for a short-term arbitration contract

Was it TSN that reported that Karlsson rejected the Ottawa offer over bonus money? I think they reported that he wanted practically his entire salary up front, like Toronto did for Tavares. Why wouldn’t they do that, if true? Does the Ottawa owner not have 10 million on hand to shell out in a bonus?


Regardless of whether or not WK makes it TO arbitration (I think his date is Aug. 3 or something like that), they (OTT/LV) still need to see what he and Stone and Ceci are gonna sign at. What their number is going to be. Especially if any of these guys are going to be included in any deal. Obviously, there's a hard cap. Contracts may need to be moved. All of this is only my best guess as to why EK hasn't been moved yet.

I forget who FIRST reported it. It may have been TSN. Here's the thing with OTT...and some other NHL teams. Not ALL teams spend TO the cap limit. OTT is one of those teams. TB/TOR/MON/CHI...other teams do...but not all. To THOSE teams, EK's guaranteed or bonus money may seem inconsequential but to teams like OTT, those things matter a GREAT deal.

There's also another couple of factors: First, we're looking at a lockout around 2020-2021. We're also looking at expansion around the same time. "small market teams" like OTT are really gonna be at a disadvantage if the cap continues to rise (as it's expected to), IF the system stays as it currently is.

Cost certainty is important for any franchise but for teams like OTT it is absolutely VITAL.

Tampa is extremely fortunate to have an owner with deep pockets, to say the least.


We all know that Karlsson wants to play for Tampa, Alpha, but you predict Vegas. Here’s where a problem may lie...Vegas has a bottleneck in their farm system which makes sense since they’ve only had 2 drafts. They have 20 players in their system under the sge of 20, but only 4 aged 20-22, when most players break in.

I looked at the Chicago Wolves roster and while I don’t think their forwards are as strong as those in Syracuse, they are loaded with prospects on the blue line which is what Ottawa needs. I know that Yzerman wanted one of them, Zach Whitecloud, really bad. I remember reading an article with a picture of Yzerman and Rob Blake together because they both showed up at his college at the same time to recruit him. Vegas was able to sign him because of Assistant GM Kelley McCrimmon at the Manitoba connection. That's why Vegas so grossly overpaid Ryan Reaves; he's one of his former players with the Brandon Wheat Kings.

But if Ottawa is still trying to include Ryan in any deal they are beyond stupid. You don't trade away the most dangerous defender in the game for a salary dump. If you're forced to do it, you have to maximize the return.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:15 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Regardless of whether or not WK makes it TO arbitration (I think his date is Aug. 3 or something like that), they (OTT/LV) still need to see what he and Stone and Ceci are gonna sign at. What their number is going to be. Especially if any of these guys are going to be included in any deal. Obviously, there's a hard cap. Contracts may need to be moved. All of this is only my best guess as to why EK hasn't been moved yet.

I forget who FIRST reported it. It may have been TSN. Here's the thing with OTT...and some other NHL teams. Not ALL teams spend TO the cap limit. OTT is one of those teams. TB/TOR/MON/CHI...other teams do...but not all. To THOSE teams, EK's guaranteed or bonus money may seem inconsequential but to teams like OTT, those things matter a GREAT deal.

There's also another couple of factors: First, we're looking at a lockout around 2020-2021. We're also looking at expansion around the same time. "small market teams" like OTT are really gonna be at a disadvantage if the cap continues to rise (as it's expected to), IF the system stays as it currently is.

Cost certainty is important for any franchise but for teams like OTT it is absolutely VITAL.

Tampa is extremely fortunate to have an owner with deep pockets, to say the least.


We all know that Karlsson wants to play for Tampa, Alpha, but you predict Vegas. Here’s where a problem may lie...Vegas has a bottleneck in their farm system which makes sense since they’ve only had 2 drafts. They have 20 players in their system under the sge of 20, but only 4 aged 20-22, when most players break in.

I looked at the Chicago Wolves roster and while I don’t think their forwards are as strong as those in Syracuse, they are loaded with prospects on the blue line which is what Ottawa needs. I know that Yzerman wanted one of them, Zach Whitecloud, really bad. I remember reading an article with a picture of Yzerman and Rob Blake together because they both showed up at his college at the same time to recruit him. Vegas was able to sign him because of Assistant GM Kelley McCrimmon at the Manitoba connection. That's why Vegas so grossly overpaid Ryan Reaves; he's one of his former players with the Brandon Wheat Kings.

But if Ottawa is still trying to include Ryan in any deal they are beyond stupid. You don't trade away the most dangerous defender in the game for a salary dump. If you're forced to do it, you have to maximize the return.


I'm not sure what you're saying but you're making my case for EK going to Vegas even stronger. You've spelled out specifically why I think he goes to Vegas; they have said "bottleneck", thus have MORE than enough assets to trade...far more than the Bolts do.

I do agree that tying Ryan to EK would be stupid but that's what was being reported earlier. You diminish the return for EK by insisting on taking Ryan's contract. Dorian isn't very smart but I doubt he's that stupid. Thus, I think a Karlsson trade will be separate from any potential Ryan deal.

I think you'll start to hear the EK rumors re-start soon. WK's (Vegas) arbitration hearing is set for Aug. 3 (I believe). Ceci and Stone are earlier. Once you have firm numbers for these guys, I think OTT will make one more effort to get the competing teams' BEST offer and then make a decision.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:52 am

Tampa and Vegas are my 2 favorite teams and I’m hoping he goes to Tampa. Vegas should hold on to their prospects as they are not as much of a contender currently as Tampa.

I think it would be a shock if Tampa didn’t win the Cup with Karlsson. You see how much ice time he and Hedman eat up. You would pretty much have either Hedman or Karlsson on the ice the entire game almost.This team would be absolutely insane offensively with the forwards already in place.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:42 pm

Brazen331 wrote:Tampa and Vegas are my 2 favorite teams and I’m hoping he goes to Tampa. Vegas should hold on to their prospects as they are not as much of a contender currently as Tampa.

I think it would be a shock if Tampa didn’t win the Cup with Karlsson. You see how much ice time he and Hedman eat up. You would pretty much have either Hedman or Karlsson on the ice the entire game almost.This team would be absolutely insane offensively with the forwards already in place.


AND McD! He eats up well over 20 MpG as well.

Hedman/EK
Stralman/McD

With EK, the Bolts could effective play 2 lines/game. They wouldn't of course but the 3rd line (Sergachev and Girardi/Coburn/Koekkoek) wouldn't get much more than 10 MpG. That means LESS COBURN!

The thing that worries me is the pressure should the Bolts acquire EK. I'm not sure this team, as it stands now, is equipped to deal the expectation that they would be EASY favorites to win the Cup this year. Even w/o EK, they're amongst the top 3 or so teams favored to win it.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:52 am

Are you saying you would want Hedman and EK on the same line? I would prefer to break them up maybe EK/McD and Hedman/Stralman. Maybe put them together on the Power Play, that would be insane.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:54 am

Brazen331 wrote:Are you saying you would want Hedman and EK on the same line? I would prefer to break them up maybe EK/McD and Hedman/Stralman. Maybe put them together on the Power Play, that would be insane.


Nah...it was in no particular order, other than those 4 being the top 2 lines this year. I do wonder how they'd work the PP though. Personally, again, for this year, I would spilt EK and Hedman. Each running point on the PP units. We had Sergachev running the PP2 line last year but I'd give him another year of seasoning before letting him run the show. It also gives him less to worry about and maybe increases his even strength goal total. Anyway...talk about 1st World Problems. LMAO!

Regardless...the interesting news is the Hurricanes trading Skinner. And getting bupkis in return. Apparently, CAR is going full re-build. Makes me wonder (and I'm sure Yzerman as well), what it would cost to get Faulk?

He would be one HELL of a consolation prize...and a great bargaining chip in the EK negotiations. Faulk is also a right-handed defensemen...something this team needs pretty badly. Especially AFTER this year. 26 years old and under contract for 2 more years @ 4.8 mil/year?! He isn't exactly EK...but he's pretty ****ing good. A gritty, shutdown D-man, who plays a lot bigger than his size. Really good skater.

And (roughly) HALF the price that EK would get? He isn't the offensive force that EK is but we don't really need that so much.

A deal for Faulk would be exponentially easier to do than an EK deal would be, I would imagine.

AND we would keep him away from TOR, who I imagine is exploring a deal for him as we speak.

I heard the rumors yesterday about CAR dealing Skinner (potentially)...but I didn't think they'd get so little for him in return. I can't imagine what CAR is thinking but I remember Don Waddell pretty ****ing well. He was the GM with the Atlanta Thrashers back when I had season tickets for them...and he makes some really questionable decisions.

WK's arbitration hearing is SAT. I wouldn't be surprised if you start hearing the EK rumors start flying again next week.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:36 am

WK is asking for 6.5 and Vegas has countered with 3.5 so far. Vegas probably wants a one-year deal to see if he can do it again. He’s a tough contract.. what if you sign him for 6 years and he regresses back to a single-digit scorer? I don’t think he will but I guess it’s possible.

I got to hand it to WK though, 6.5 is a pretty reasonable ask if this is how he will play from now on. Mark Stone asked for 9 million. WTF?????
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:48 am

Brazen331 wrote:WK is asking for 6.5 and Vegas has countered with 3.5 so far. Vegas probably wants a one-year deal to see if he can do it again. He’s a tough contract.. what if you sign him for 6 years and he regresses back to a single-digit scorer? I don’t think he will but I guess it’s possible.

I got to hand it to WK though, 6.5 is a pretty reasonable ask if this is how he will play from now on. Mark Stone asked for 9 million. WTF?????


That 9 mil was his "arbitration" number. NHL arbitration is different from the NFL. In the NFL, the arbiter chooses one number OR the other. In the NHL, the arbiter can choose ANY number in between the two. The NHL also has a distinguished history of choosing a number some near the middle of the two.

WK is a tough one and probably should go to arbitration. 6.5 mil seems pretty reasonable...unless he reverts back to the 30 pt./year player he's been. He probably does a 1 year. 5-5.5 mil/year "prove it" deal. Then he gets paid next year.

Dorian is known as one of the worst GM's in the league...and the Stone deal just re-inforces it. OTT now has the possibility of losing 3 of their best players, at the end of this year...for absolutely NOTHING.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Swashy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:30 pm

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:WK is asking for 6.5 and Vegas has countered with 3.5 so far. Vegas probably wants a one-year deal to see if he can do it again. He’s a tough contract.. what if you sign him for 6 years and he regresses back to a single-digit scorer? I don’t think he will but I guess it’s possible.

I got to hand it to WK though, 6.5 is a pretty reasonable ask if this is how he will play from now on. Mark Stone asked for 9 million. WTF?????


That 9 mil was his "arbitration" number. NHL arbitration is different from the NFL. In the NFL, the arbiter chooses one number OR the other. In the NHL, the arbiter can choose ANY number in between the two. The NHL also has a distinguished history of choosing a number some near the middle of the two.

WK is a tough one and probably should go to arbitration. 6.5 mil seems pretty reasonable...unless he reverts back to the 30 pt./year player he's been. He probably does a 1 year. 5-5.5 mil/year "prove it" deal. Then he gets paid next year.

Dorian is known as one of the worst GM's in the league...and the Stone deal just re-inforces it. OTT now has the possibility of losing 3 of their best players, at the end of this year...for absolutely NOTHING.


Dorian is in the most unenviable position in the NHL right now. Everyone knows Ottawa owner Eugene Melnyk is a special kind of POS. Everyone on earth knows he's under orders to shed his most expensive players and everyone is low balling and busting his balls right now. Vegas and Dallas refuse to budge on Cody Glass and Miro Heiskanen respectively (their best prospects) and the Lightning have refused to budge on Sergachev. All Dorion can do is bide his time and put his faith in Guy Boucher that the Senators can duplicate their success from 2 years ago and put last year's nightmare behind them. If the Senators go out and kill it this year then everything's gonna be water under the bridge for guys like Duchene and Stone and might be enough for Karlsson to re-sign a one year deal as a token of good faith both to the city of Ottawa and the Senators while Melnyk kindly fucks off and sells the team. This has about a 10% chance of going right and I have to say I can't blame Dorion for betting on it. He has done nothing but work with a gun to his head.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Swashy wrote:
Alpha wrote:
That 9 mil was his "arbitration" number. NHL arbitration is different from the NFL. In the NFL, the arbiter chooses one number OR the other. In the NHL, the arbiter can choose ANY number in between the two. The NHL also has a distinguished history of choosing a number some near the middle of the two.

WK is a tough one and probably should go to arbitration. 6.5 mil seems pretty reasonable...unless he reverts back to the 30 pt./year player he's been. He probably does a 1 year. 5-5.5 mil/year "prove it" deal. Then he gets paid next year.

Dorian is known as one of the worst GM's in the league...and the Stone deal just re-inforces it. OTT now has the possibility of losing 3 of their best players, at the end of this year...for absolutely NOTHING.


Dorian is in the most unenviable position in the NHL right now. Everyone knows Ottawa owner Eugene Melnyk is a special kind of POS. Everyone on earth knows he's under orders to shed his most expensive players and everyone is low balling and busting his balls right now. Vegas and Dallas refuse to budge on Cody Glass and Miro Heiskanen respectively (their best prospects) and the Lightning have refused to budge on Sergachev. All Dorion can do is bide his time and put his faith in Guy Boucher that the Senators can duplicate their success from 2 years ago and put last year's nightmare behind them. If the Senators go out and kill it this year then everything's gonna be water under the bridge for guys like Duchene and Stone and might be enough for Karlsson to re-sign a one year deal as a token of good faith both to the city of Ottawa and the Senators while Melnyk kindly fucks off and sells the team. This has about a 10% chance of going right and I have to say I can't blame Dorion for betting on it. He has done nothing but work with a gun to his head.


I do sympathize with the fans of OTT. I feel the same about the owner of the Tampa Bay Rays; Slumlord Stewie Steinberg. I also agree that I'm probably being a little hard on Dorian...but Dorian isn't helping himself. He got ****ing fleeced on the Duchene deal...and that's just the most recent example. A lot of it though, isn't his doing.
Who the **** saw that Hoffman thing coming!? WTHOLYF!?

I think most people agree they over-achieved quite a bit, 2 years ago but (as they say), it is what it is. With the Ceci deal today...just look at what faces them at the end of this year. They've pretty much, boxed themselves into a corner. They lose their first round pick...and they can't really afford to suck bad enough to have that pick be Hughes. There would be a ****ing RIOT if it turns out to be Hughes. Thus...they really need to keep all of their best players and hope they come out hot and do well enough to finish OUT of the lottery. Unfortunately for them, their 4 best players are UFA's at the end of the year and Ceci is still a RFA. They NEED to fire-sale these guys to get the best return. Waiting until the trade deadline (if they're playing well), diminishes the return even MORE than now.

They can hope and pray that all of these guys re-sign but they've got another problem. They have no cap room. 6 mil or so. They're in a black hole of **** right now. And they can't afford to let these guys walk next year for NOTHING. That sets then back even MORE.

That is one fucked franchise. Jesus...there isn't enough tea in China to take Dorian's job.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:42 pm

Aaaaand there's WK's deal.

1 year. 5.25 mil.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out with EK. Does OTT bite the bullet and sell off their guys or do they try and make a go of it this year and sell at the trade deadline?

Let the games, begin!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:58 pm

Not much happening and not much of substance in the rumor mill but it looks like OTT is going to do the only thing they really can do. WIN games this year.

Brady Tkachuk signed today.

Dorian is going to look like a genius or a fool by the trade deadline, this year.

IF OTT can somehow find a way to be in the hunt or even post a winning record...they could still (potentially) re-sign EK at the end of the year. Duchene and Stone are both UFA's at the end of the year as well. They win games...these guys will consider re-signing. If they don't...Dorian is gonna have to sell them off at the trade deadline. And he'll get next to nothing...pennies on the dollar...for EK. Duchene and Stone will be gone as well. And OTT is fully fucked for the forseeable future.

This is a decent scenario for the Bolts. IF EK starts the year in OTT, it's extremely likely he hits the market at the end of the year. And we'll have a better than even chance of signing him...and lose NOTHING.

We all had better cheer for OTT losing their ass. Early and often. It could become a real shit-show there by New Years...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Don’t forget OTT has no first either...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:00 am

real bucs fan wrote:Don’t forget OTT has no first either...


I think every hockey fan knows this but....mmmmkay.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:28 am

Alpha wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Don’t forget OTT has no first either...


I think every hockey fan knows this but....mmmmkay.


Alpha, did someone hack your account or did you actually thank someone? Do you remember who it was? You have 1 thank so either you thanked or were hacked.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:04 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
I think every hockey fan knows this but....mmmmkay.


Alpha, did someone hack your account or did you actually thank someone? Do you remember who it was? You have 1 thank so either you thanked or were hacked.



coulda hit the button on accident..like accidentally thanked someone or something
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Buc2 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:07 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
I think every hockey fan knows this but....mmmmkay.


Alpha, did someone hack your account or did you actually thank someone? Do you remember who it was? You have 1 thank so either you thanked or were hacked.

I'm more surprised that he was thanked 92 times. I can't even begin to wrap my head around that stat.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:12 am

I've never "thanked" one person here.

Even on accident.
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